Draft Profile: 2B Nick Madrigal, Oregon State

[NorthSideSox72]

This is the first of what will be a number of deep dives into key draft prospects that the White Sox could select in the 1st round this June.

First up - Nick Madrigal

 

[oldsox]

Who is his agent/advisor?  When do these guys make that disclosure?

[Lillian]

I'm with Baseball America and prefer India, to Madrigal. He provides more flexibility, with the ability to play third, short or second. India is putting up an even better OBP, in a tougher conference and, of course, he provides power potential, which Madrigal does not. 

Moreover, although I understand that, at #4, you pick the best player available, Madrigal is not clearly the best player. Therefore, it makes sense to think about how he would fit into the rebuild. If there is one player on this young team, who is a lock to be there, when the contending window opens, it's Moncada, and he is not going to move off second base, which happens to be just about the only place Madrigal profiles. He is just 2 years younger than Moncada. That pretty much negates the advantage of Madrigal being capable of being fast tracked to the Majors. He could indeed be ready for the "Big Show," in 2020, but would not have a place to play. It just doesn't make sense for the Sox to pick him. 

Oh sure, they could take him and then trade him, but that only makes sense if he is clearly the best player available, and that is not the case.

Edited May 11, 2018 by Lillian

[Dick Allen]

I don't understand how anyone can conclude this guy won't hit any home runs. Look at little guys from the past. They usually start out hitting few, but figure something out. Making all that contact, in today's game, HRs will come. Besides, Ichiro rarely hit homers, and I think everyone would take him in his prime. 

 

His stature is what holds him back, but there are plenty of tiny guys who have flurished. Not just Altuve and Pedroia. Adam Eaton is little. He is pretty good. Kirby Puckett was 5'8" and had 4 homers his first 1300 MLB plate appearances. Then he hit 31. I don't think he will be a 30 HR hitter, but he seems like he is the best hitter in the draft. I think his size is causing people to out think themselves on the obvious pick if he is still there.

[Dick Allen]

1 hour ago, Lillian said:

I'm with Baseball America and prefer India, to Madrigal. He provides more flexibility, with the ability to play third, short or second. India is putting up an even better OBP, in a tougher conference and, of course, he provides power potential, which Madrigal does not. 

Moreover, although I understand that, at #4, you pick the best player available, Madrigal is not clearly the best player. Therefore, it makes sense to think about how he would fit into the rebuild. If there is one player on this young team, who is a lock to be there, when the contending window opens, it's Moncada, and he is not going to move off second base, which happens to be just about the only place Madrigal profiles. He is just 2 years younger than Moncada. That pretty much negates the advantage of Madrigal being capable of being fast tracked to the Majors. He could indeed be ready for the "Big Show," in 2020, but would not have a place to play. It just doesn't make sense for the Sox to pick him. 

Oh sure, they could take him and then trade him, but that only makes sense if he is clearly the best player available, and that is not the case.

Then why would you mention India?

[DirtySox]

1 hour ago, Lillian said:

I'm with Baseball America and prefer India, to Madrigal. He provides more flexibility, with the ability to play third, short or second. India is putting up an even better OBP, in a tougher conference and, of course, he provides power potential, which Madrigal does not. 

To be clear.  Baseball America doesn't prefer India to Madrigal.  Madrigal is ranked 3rd and India 15th. They just think at this point that the White Sox prefer him via the latest mock draft.  

[bmags]

Has anyone said he straight up can't play 3rd? I get that his arm isn't plus plus, but neither is Yolmers, and he makes up for it in the same way Madrigal could, his exceptionally quick release (madrigal has fast hands). It's a question of "wasting" his athleticism there, but especially in the age of shifts I just don't buy that you couldn't play madrigal anywhere in the infield.

[Lillian]

5 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

To be clear.  Baseball America doesn't prefer India to Madrigal.  Madrigal is ranked 3rd and India 15th. They just think at this point that the White Sox prefer him via the latest mock draft.  

Thank you for the clarification. I don't subscribe to Baseball America and therefore didn't know anything more than the reference to their quote, in this Future Sox article. In any case, I'm glad to hear that the Sox may prefer India.

[Lillian]

1 minute ago, bmags said:

Has anyone said he straight up can't play 3rd? I get that his arm isn't plus plus, but neither is Yolmers, and he makes up for it in the same way Madrigal could, his exceptionally quick release (madrigal has fast hands). It's a question of "wasting" his athleticism there, but especially in the age of shifts I just don't buy that you couldn't play madrigal anywhere in the infield.

I haven't read any specific assertion that Madrigal can't play third, but it is pretty unanimous that he profiles best at second. If you find a scouting report that suggest he could play third, that would be interesting to know.

[Dick Allen]

4 minutes ago, Lillian said:

Thank you for the clarification. I don't subscribe to Baseball America and therefore didn't know anything more than the reference to their quote, in this Future Sox article. In any case, I'm glad to hear that the Sox may prefer India.

So you are glad the Sox may be interested in the 15th rated player over the 4th rated player, even though you stated they need to take the best player available?

[Lillian]

If they think that there is clearly a better player than India available, at #4, I'd prefer that they take that player. I'm just not sold on Madrigal, for the Sox. Perhaps they will go with a college arm. This entire concept of "best player available" is valid. The problem is that, in this year's draft, there doesn't seem to be a clear consensus about who is the best player, not even at #1 or 2. It all becomes very subjective, when there is no clear consensus. Can one really argue that Madrigal is "clearly" a better player than India?  Then too, there is the possibility of exploiting the rankings, by selecting an under slot player, and thus having more money to spend, in a later pick. But then, I'm sure that you know that.

Edited May 11, 2018 by Lillian

[caulfield12]

Isn’t Mize the only clear choice at 1-1...with 5-7 following in any order?

[Dick Allen]

5 minutes ago, Lillian said:

If they think that there is clearly a better player than India available, at #4, I'd prefer that they take that player. I'm just not sold on Madrigal, for the Sox. Perhaps they will go with a college arm. This entire concept of "best player available" is valid. The problem is that, in this year's draft, there doesn't seem to be a clear consensus about who is the best player, not even at #1 or 2. It all becomes very subjective, when there is no clear consensus. 

Yeah a guy coming back from a broken wrist hitting .449 with speed, defense and a high baseball IQ is clearly not what the Sox should consider.

[Lillian]

Just now, Dick Allen said:

Yeah a guy coming back from a broken wrist hitting .449 with speed, defense and a high baseball IQ is clearly not what the Sox should consider.

Ok, I understand. He is your favorite. That's fine. We all have our own opinion, and I respect that. I like the player too. I just would prefer someone else, with our #4 pick.

[southsider2k5]

With his athleticism, has there been anyone mention him having a future as a CF or OF in general?

[yesterday333]

47 minutes ago, Lillian said:

I haven't read any specific assertion that Madrigal can't play third, but it is pretty unanimous that he profiles best at second. If you find a scouting report that suggest he could play third, that would be interesting to know.

I think it was a Baseball America chat a few weeks back somebody asked if Madrigal could play third and the guy said he wouldn't doubt Madrigal at anything. He felt with his athleticism and how hard he works he probably could play anywhere he wanted.

[turnin' two]

Madrigal seems like probably the safest pick in the draft.  He will make it to the majors, likely do it quickly, be able to hit, run and field pretty well at whatever position he plays.  

His downside is that he may not be a game changing talent.

I am not worried about his lack of power, even if it never develops.  When you forecast the Sox lineup (clearly a dangerous task) but with guys like Moncada, Anderson, and Abreu at the MLB level and Eloy, Robert, Miker, Collins, Zavala, and all the others in the minors, the projectable lineup has enough power from all the other positions on the field for them to lack power in a guy that could be a 1 or 2 hitter with elite hitting and running ability.  There will be ( usual caveat, if guys pan out) plus power at C,1B,2B, SS, LF, CF, RF.  That can make up for a guy that doesn't have much power.  

I guess my point is that his height and even his lack of power shouldn't be huge reasons to not take him.  

I think I kind of agree with Lillian on the position factor though.  If the Sox believe that the only position he can play is 2B, well, that isn't much of a fit and I don't think I would draft him unless they have him graded out significantly above the next guy.  I get that you can trade him, but drafting a guy that in the best case scenario you trade seems like an odd strategy to me, if you have other available guys that are graded similarly.  

I am leaning towards hoping the Sox take a pitcher, but if they go hitter, while Madrigal may not be the most exciting prospect due to lack of power, guys like Jean Segura and Elvis Andrus may not be the most exciting guys on their teams (though they are really fun to watch), they really add a lot to their teams.

[Dick Allen]

39 minutes ago, raBBit said:

I think if the Sox took Madrigal they would say he's a shortstop and from everything they've seen he has the ability to play SS. 

I agree with this. Ozzie Guillen was on TV the other day. He said he thought Anderson would wind up in the OF. Madrigal could be the pawn that pushes him there. Saves a bit of face if it is something that needs to be done.

[bmags]

I think the main issue I've had with people's opinions on Madrigal is when scouts talk about him profiling best at 2b, they aren't just saying it's his best position (as in he can't play anywhere else), they are saying he's a Plus-plus future gold glover there.

That doesn't mean he is below average in other positions. It means he's really good at 2b. 

[DirtySox]

Just now, bmags said:

I think the main issue I've had with people's opinions on Madrigal is when scouts talk about him profiling best at 2b, they aren't just saying it's his best position they are saying he's a Plusplus future gold glover there.

That doesn't mean he is below average in other positions. It means he's really good at 2b. 

Yep.  I feel like his versatility is being overlooked considerably.  Kid can do pretty much everything.  He's my preferred position player out of the entire college crop.

[joejoedairy]

I would still prefer Bohm first, but if he's gone I'd be happy with Madrigal. 

Hopefully they arent both gone

[Lillian]

I just received this relevant article, in my email:

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/2018-mlb-mock-draft-picks-1-35/?utm_source=180511_newsletter&utm_medium=email

[chitownsportsfan]

33 minutes ago, Lillian said:

I just received this relevant article, in my email:

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/2018-mlb-mock-draft-picks-1-35/?utm_source=180511_newsletter&utm_medium=email

Thanks but it's paywalled, you can post their blurb on the Sox though,  that meets fair use guidelines.

[DirtySox]

42 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Thanks but it's paywalled, you can post their blurb on the Sox though,  that meets fair use guidelines.

It's just the most current BA mock.  I posted the Sox blurb in the Draft Thread a few days ago.

[Wanne]

Madrigal is the best pure hitter I've seen come out of college in quite some time.  Yeah...I'd play him at SS.  Not sure how well that'll work out...but from a hitting perspective...there's none better.  I've been high on this kid for the past 3 years.