soxfan49 Posted May 20, 2018 Author Share Posted May 20, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Again, look at what JD Martinez brought, which was minimal. Could that be because he was an impending FA? IIRC, tons of analysts were very disappointed in the haul that Detroit got for JDM. I don’t believe any of those guys that Detroit got were even in Arizona’s top 20 prospects. Edited May 20, 2018 by soxfan49 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 18 hours ago, TheFutureIsNear said: Would love to see him stay, but at the same time you have to listen on trade offers. If a desperate team at the deadline is willing to give 2 good prospects it will be hard to turn down. Not sure what Jose's value around the league is, but I'd ask for a lot if no one is willing to meet the requirements Jose would stay. The deal would start with a top 50 prospect for me Agreed. If a team offers several good prospects they would have to consider moving him. No need to be desperate though. Maybe Shields and Abreu for three studs if James stays sharp. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 8 minutes ago, soxfan49 said: Could that be because he was an impending FA? Do you have a deal for a similar player that is more accurate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 35 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Again, look at what JD Martinez brought, which was minimal. He only had one year left but yeah agreed if that is the return let him play it out and then take the pick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 6 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said: He only had one year left but yeah agreed if that is the return let him play it out and then take the pick Again, if there is a more accurate deal out there, I would like to hear it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 Just now, southsider2k5 said: Again, if there is a more accurate deal out there, I would like to hear it. Lucroy maybe? Beltran? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 To be honest, I don't think he'll have a good market, so I wouldn't trade him. However, I wouldn't re-sign him either, unless he had a horrible market, or wanted to do a QO acceptance or something like that. He'll be 33 during the offseason that he is a FA, so I don't think it is in the team's best interest to sign him. Collins or Zavala can take over if one of them doesn't stick at Catcher. Would it be nice to have him here for longer? Yes. But the dude should get his and I wouldn't blame him for leaving, nor would I make a fair offer based on aging curves so w/e. Godspeed Abreu. He'd have to accept like 2/30 or something like that and I think he could get more dollars and years on the open market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 If he's really 3 years older than they say, then I guess he doesn't fit the rebuild. But if his age is correct, keep him around. We will need some veterans who care as much as he does. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said: Lucroy maybe? Beltran? Lucroy was dealt for a PTBNL at the deadline, but also could catch. Carlos Beltran has been dealt a few times, the last was for nothing. The big Beltran deal about a decade ago he was still a stud in the OF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 As far as moving him, likely no team is going to match the value that we see in him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 30 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Lucroy was dealt for a PTBNL at the deadline, but also could catch. Carlos Beltran has been dealt a few times, the last was for nothing. The big Beltran deal about a decade ago he was still a stud in the OF. Lucroy was dealt for a PTBNL when he declined. When he could hit and had control they got a good return. It all really depends on what teams need if there is demand we could get a good offer other trades of 1B I sort of remember being good returns are the Texeria trade obviously. The Agonz trade (padres). The yankees also got a good return for McCann but you would think Abreu would be worth more. The other thing that is sort of key is how he hits. If he continues to tear the cover off the ball the demand will be greater some team will view him as the missing piece of their offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 52 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said: Lucroy was dealt for a PTBNL when he declined. When he could hit and had control they got a good return. It all really depends on what teams need if there is demand we could get a good offer other trades of 1B I sort of remember being good returns are the Texeria trade obviously. The Agonz trade (padres). The yankees also got a good return for McCann but you would think Abreu would be worth more. The other thing that is sort of key is how he hits. If he continues to tear the cover off the ball the demand will be greater some team will view him as the missing piece of their offense. You really can't go back in time a decade as the move away from these type of players has been over the last few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 (edited) Some of the FA's this past off-season who were FAIRLY similar would be Carlos Santana and Jay Bruce. Pretty sure Santana was 3/$60. Bruce was 3/$39 for age 31-33. You have Moustakas' one year deal, when his market dried up. He and Logan Morrison were 1 year/$6.5 million. Yonder Alonso, 2 years/$16 million. Average those (five deals) all together...2 years/total of $21.6 million ($10.8 million per year) If you want to go on the high side, you have Brandon Belt for ages 30-33 (4 years), $64 million. We also have the evidence that Jose Bautista's last effective year was age 35 (and can compare body styles). Edited May 21, 2018 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 58 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: You really can't go back in time a decade as the move away from these type of players has been over the last few years. Sure but the McCann trade happened in 2016. He really wasn't that good when he was moved and at that point already transitioned to 1B. Earlier I named five teams that could be interested in his services. It sort of helps there are a bunch of 1B on contending teams having terrible years. Whether that be the Mets. Yankees. Astros. Mariners. Rockies. Nationals. Indians Then you also have a team like the dodgers who need help and can move 1B off a position and get help there. Last year was a different story pretty much all the main guys will hitting we will have to see how it holds up. Another thing going for the CHW is if you take a look at the Mariners and Rockies for example they are two teams where they haven't really been there for awhile. They maybe more hungry to make a deal and for their fans to see a run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 Where are you going to play Bellinger if Abreu was traded to the Dodgers...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 I don't follow the Cubs. Do they need a first baseman? They might overpay again in a trade with the Chisox. Jose A deserves to be on a contender. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 Well, sure....he's named Anthony Rizzo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Where are you going to play Bellinger if Abreu was traded to the Dodgers...? 3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Where are you going to play Bellinger if Abreu was traded to the Dodgers...? He probably replaces Puig in the OF. Remember he originally came up as an OF. There are baseball people with the Dodgers who think Cody Bellinger is their best defensive center fielder — Peter Gammons (@pgammo) July 13, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 (edited) Well, Puig has finally started to hit in the last two weeks...so they're probably not going to make that kind of trade without exploring other options that won't cost a Top 75-100 talent, unless they can trade Puig (+ money) for Abreu, which makes little to no sense for the Sox. The ONLY one that would make sense for the Sox would be Joc Pederson for Abreu...as there's no way they would trade Verdugo for him. At any rate, they already have Puig, Kemp, Chris Taylor, Joc Pederson, Kiki Hernandez and Verdugo (DL) in the outfield. The biggest problems for the Dodgers have been in the pitching department, now that they have Justin Turner's bat back at 3rd. And yeah, Taylor and Pederson haven't graded out as "very good" CFer's defensively. That much is true. Edited May 21, 2018 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 What evidence is there that he is older than is reported? And the comments on Jose being larger or whatever...I think he’s actually much thinner than he’s been in previous years. Jose and Shields are two guys that are adding value well-beyond their on-field contributions to the organization. Moving Jose, absent just an absolute pillaging of another team would not be wise, IMHO. I wouldn’t mind extending him to something that makes sense for both parties. The guy has earned it, and the young kids would benefit. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 If he keeps his weight down (while maintaining similar power numbers), then he's much less of a concern at ages 33-35 than he would have been a couple of years ago. His defense is still a hot mess, so he realistically should be at DH. The problem there is that so should Eloy Jimenez, although they can live with one of them out on the field because of the offensive trade-off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 21 minutes ago, iamshack said: What evidence is there that he is older than is reported? And the comments on Jose being larger or whatever...I think he’s actually much thinner than he’s been in previous years. Jose and Shields are two guys that are adding value well-beyond their on-field contributions to the organization. Moving Jose, absent just an absolute pillaging of another team would not be wise, IMHO. I wouldn’t mind extending him to something that makes sense for both parties. The guy has earned it, and the young kids would benefit. 100% agree with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 20 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: If he keeps his weight down (while maintaining similar power numbers), then he's much less of a concern at ages 33-35 than he would have been a couple of years ago. His defense is still a hot mess, so he realistically should be at DH. The problem there is that so should Eloy Jimenez, although they can live with one of them out on the field because of the offensive trade-off. Why should Eloy Jimenez be at DH? I don’t get where this narrative is coming from. Maybe five to seven years from now he’ll be too big to play a solid LF, but he should be fine out there for a while. Jimenez isn’t a bad defensive player by any means. This idea we need three gold glove OFs is crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 He’s our boy. He stays. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 33 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Why should Eloy Jimenez be at DH? I don’t get where this narrative is coming from. Maybe five to seven years from now he’ll be too big to play a solid LF, but he should be fine out there for a while. Jimenez isn’t a bad defensive player by any means. This idea we need three gold glove OFs is crazy. I think any MLB GM will take an outfield of Pollock, Robert and Basabe/Adolfo/Rutherford over one with Jimenez on a corner.It's not a HAVE to...but it's not impossible to end up with that type of alignment, either. The Royals, for example, had Gordon, Cain and Dyson together, all three Gold-Glove level defenders. It was (unarguably) more necessary for Kauffman than it would be playing 81 home games at USCF, but we've seen this year and in the past what a huge difference outfield defense can make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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