2018-2019 Official NBA thread

[bmags]

I'm going to be positive because i really need a good bulls team to at least be in the horizon, as little as I trust this org to put together one that could be special.

[thxfrthmmrs]

Just now, Dick Allen said:

I'll believe the Bulls will sign 1 max guy, let alone 2, when they actually do it. 

Honestly their best chance is 2020. Pelicans isn't built for the future so he's likely leaving. West is stacked but East looks weak especially if Lebron starts to decline or had moved west. Bulls will be selling the homecoming narrative and at least that will be more enticing than previous attempts. If AD signs, I think we should be in good position to get a 2nd star to join.

[bmags]

Don't be surprised if Davis stays. When he shot up 8 inches senior year he stayed at perspectives. He may was never the hot shot AAU prospect so he may have different experience/priorities.

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, Jenksismyhero said:

Zach Lowe had a good discussion on the Bulls in his latest podcast. They are in really good position going forward with basically nothing on the books. They'll be able to afford 2 max guys two years from now if they really wanted to (Anthony Davis sweepstakes).

Both Lowe and Kevin Arnovitz agreed that either the Bulls are going to be sneaky good in the next season or two (if Markennan, Carter, Dunn, etc. develop) with lots of room to add max FA's. Or, they'll be a team like Orlando but with no bad contracts.

That basically nothing on the books changes immediately if they extend LaVine. And I'm skeptical on the "If everyone develops with no problems" comment, because that seems quite unlikely. If it happens then it is a credit to this organization, which as of late would be unusual. 

[Chisoxfn]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

That's a bit surprising just due to the Mirotic trade taking them out of a big free agency haul this year.

I would honestly feel bad for Fred in that situation because he basically only had a roster close to his style for about 20 games.

I think they view their best shot to the top and continuing to draft well and letting their young nucleus flash so they are a very attractive destination for potential free agents next year.  With Dunn and Lavine, that is a solid back-court with upside.  Lauri hopefully takes a big next step forward and we'll see what we get out of the two rookies.  

We have great cap space and are probably a much better team than people think. David Griffin, former Cavs GM, said a day or two ago that no one is talking about the Bulls, but they should be.  The only thing that will irritate me this offseason is if we totally hamper ourselves with some awful contracts.  

[Chisoxfn]

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

I'll believe the Bulls will sign 1 max guy, let alone 2, when they actually do it. I think the White Sox have a better shot of signing Machado and Harper this offseason than that happening.

I'll never say such a thing. In NBA, money doesn't matter, the availability of money matters. While Bulls haven't landed big fish, they have been able to land bigger name free agents. Maybe no the name they wanted, but in the city of Chicago with no financial limitations, they should absolutely be competitive (especially with the right nucleus).  Its too bad they weren't a year more into this rebuild because if we were, I think a lot more people would be linking Lebron to Chicago. Its just a year (at least a year, maybe two) too soon to begin that discussion.

Pax and Gar's strategy is to draft well, get good (without bad contracts) and than see if you can land an extra star via free agency (hopefully you land a few really good players via draft and maybe one of those guys emerges into a star).  

[southsider2k5]

I will believe in the Bulls when the Bulls do something worth believing in.  They seem to be waiting for something good to happen instead of doing like the most successful teams in the league and MAKING something happen.

[Chisoxfn]

21 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

That basically nothing on the books changes immediately if they extend LaVine. And I'm skeptical on the "If everyone develops with no problems" comment, because that seems quite unlikely. If it happens then it is a credit to this organization, which as of late would be unusual. 

I think everyone is assuming 2 max deals + Lavine in two years.  They likely can make some maneuvering to do 2 max deals even next year (to extent it makes sense).  My guess is next year's FA and the following year FA basically is their two year window (kind of like this is the start of "Magic's" two year window).  

[bmags]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

I will believe in the Bulls when the Bulls do something worth believing in.  They seem to be waiting for something good to happen instead of doing like the most successful teams in the league and MAKING something happen.

This is a good way of putting it.

[Dick Allen]

7 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

I think everyone is assuming 2 max deals + Lavine in two years.  They likely can make some maneuvering to do 2 max deals even next year (to extent it makes sense).  My guess is next year's FA and the following year FA basically is their two year window (kind of like this is the start of "Magic's" two year window).  

LAL have space for 2 max guys, the Bulls have space for 2 max guys. Where will the max players go?  Sorry GarPax, you get the Carlos Boozer/Ron Mercer consolation prize. We have seen it so many times, I don't know how anyone can really expect anything else. Cap space has meant nothing to the Bulls.

Edited June 27, 2018 by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

6 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

LAL have space for 2 max guys, the Bulls have space for 2 max guys. Where will the max players go?  Sorry GarPax, you get the Carlos Boozer/Ron Mercer consolation prize. We have seen it so many times, I don't know how anyone can really expect anything else. Cap space has meant nothing to the Bulls.

I don't believe the Bulls have space for 2 max guys this year. They would need to dump Lopez and not bring back Lavine to get anywhere close. They have $60 million on the books, with a $101 million cap, and that's not counting the draft values or Lavine. They gave up their chance at 2 max deals when they took back Asik's deal. They absolutely should have space for 1 max.

[Dick Allen]

8 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I don't believe the Bulls have space for 2 max guys this year. They would need to dump Lopez and not bring back Lavine to get anywhere close. They have $60 million on the books, with a $101 million cap, and that's not counting the draft values or Lavine. They gave up their chance at 2 max deals when they took back Asik's deal. They absolutely should have space for 1 max.

I don't think they are signing anyone this year, at least that is what Friedell thought. At least not a max guy unless Lebron gave them a call. Maybe next year, but anyone hanging their hopes on the Bulls signing a max guy hasn't been paying attention.  And they seem to have soured on LeVine. He was a stud with a shredded knee when they acquired him, and now not much after easing his way into 24 games. Yet Chandler Hutchinson was on their radar when he was coming off the bench for Boise State, stinking up the place as a sophomore. If LeVine isn't what they claimed he was during his rehab, their trade of Butler leaves a lot to be desired..

 

Now they want to sneak into the playoffs like they did when they gave DWade a boatload of money. It seems clownish most of the time when people rail on management about being all about money, especially teams like the Bulls who print money,  but it does seem the Bulls are scared a few years of losing now will destroy their bottom line and kill some sponsorships. 

Edited June 27, 2018 by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

14 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I don't think they are signing anyone this year, at least that is what Friedell thought. At least not a max guy unless Lebron gave them a call. Maybe next year, but anyone hanging their hopes on the Bulls signing a max guy hasn't been paying attention.  And they seem to have soured on LeVine. He was a stud with a shredded knee when they acquired him, and now not much after easing his way into 24 games. Yet Chandler Hutchinson was on their radar when he was coming off the bench for Boise State, stinking up the place as a sophomore. If LeVine isn't what they claimed he was during his rehab, their trade of Butler leaves a lot to be desired..

They might have a legit shot at 2 max offers next year, but they have to be extremely careful about it because they're still going to have Asik's dead $12 million on the books next year. Another $8 million on the books for Felicio brings them to $20 million, then they have Markannen at $5 million, Dunn at $5 million, this year's 2 draftees at about $3 million each, a draft hold for next year's lottery pick at about $3 million, and that brings them all the way up to $39 million. If we're talking about players in years 7-9 of their contract, the max for them is $29 million, which means that the Bulls could offer 2 of them next year if they did not sign Lavine, let Valentine, Portis, Grant, and Payne all walk, did not add anyone, did not sign anyone for more than 1 year this offseason, did not take back any money in trades, and did not sign anyone who had been in the league for 10+ years (their max is $34 million). 

Note that "not signing Lavine" is in that list. If they sign him to a multi-year deal, the only way to be able to offer 2 max deals will be for them to shed salary such as Felicio or Asik, which they'll have to give up something of value to make happen.

They will still be able to offer at least 1 max deal next year no question, and conceivably the year after as well.

[Jenksismyhero]

There's something about Asik's deal that can be worked with. I dunno if they use the stretch provision or what, but they can do something with it according to Lowe.

[bmags]

Asik has a 3.5 mill buyout after this year.

[Balta1701]

4 minutes ago, bmags said:

Asik has a 3.5 mill buyout after this year.

Ok, that's not listed in any of the contract detail sites I checked, it was only shown as a player option in Hoopshype.

[Jenksismyhero]

4 minutes ago, bmags said:

Asik has a 3.5 mill buyout after this year.

yeah maybe that's what it was

[bmags]

Check that, it's 3 million guaranteed.

[Chisoxfn]

40 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

LAL have space for 2 max guys, the Bulls have space for 2 max guys. Where will the max players go?  Sorry GarPax, you get the Carlos Boozer/Ron Mercer consolation prize. We have seen it so many times, I don't know how anyone can really expect anything else. Cap space has meant nothing to the Bulls.

Here is the thing. The Lakers have done worse in there few years of being at the top than the Bulls. Yes, we will be at a disadvantage to the Lakers in terms of marketing, but we are at an advantage to most all other franchises when it comes to making the pitch. The Lakers are all expecting Bron + George (or Leonard).  So they are going to spend their cap space this year...next year you will have new teams but the Bulls will be one of the top major market teams.  I think somewhere you have luck in the equation but the Bulls are going to beat out one of these teams at some point. I am a believer in maximizing your assets and building as good of a team as you can and than trying to one-up it every year (i.e., Darryl Morey).  Paxson is good at acquiring assets...he didn't quite maximize all his assets the pass go-round, but he's going to get another chance at that and hopefully he'll do better this time.  

[Chisoxfn]

14 minutes ago, Jenksismyhero said:

There's something about Asik's deal that can be worked with. I dunno if they use the stretch provision or what, but they can do something with it according to Lowe.

Yeah - Asik doesn't become a problem 2 years from now.  Felicio is the one "bad" contract we have.  We need to stay away from that type of deal and hope that Felicio gets his act back in gear this year to where we could move him.  

[Dick Allen]

2 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

Yeah - Asik doesn't become a problem 2 years from now.  Felicio is the one "bad" contract we have.  We need to stay away from that type of deal and hope that Felicio gets his act back in gear this year to where we could move him.  

That signing was always curious to me. I think it is the thing that scares me most about this "rebuild."  They seem to think they can make stars out of guys who can't be stars. I know $8 million a year isn't star money, but it's certainly a great wage for the Felicio family, and seems to imply they were going to make him better than he could be. Then reality hit.

 

It seems most guys in the NBA don't improve all that much after they have been around for a couple years. Even if they are still like 22 years old. 

Edited June 27, 2018 by Dick Allen

[Chisoxfn]

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

That signing was always curious to me. I think it is the thing that scares me most about this "rebuild."  They seem to think they can make stars out of guys who can't be stars. I know $8 million a year isn't star money, but it's certainly a great wage for the Felicio family, and seems to imply they were going to make him better than he could be. Then reality hit.

That is why the only thing that will upset me this offseason would be if they handed out some ridiculous contract to minimal upside players. Lavine & Nwaba will probably be the two contracts the Bulls give out and as long as they aren't going "max type" money on Lavine I'm okay with that (and similarly as long as Nwaba is in that 5-6M camp that should be fine and a totally moveable deal if new FA's want to come).  I'm not ready to give up on Lavine, but I will admit, there will be some risk to that deal.  

[bmags]

Felicio has one really good skill that none of our guards knew how to use except Dwyane Wade. He also came back fat which didn't help. If Dunn can get him some rim running opportunities enough that a team that uses it wants him then that's gonna help with moving him.

 

edit: me, dummy, called Felicio Asik

[Chisoxfn]

NBA will be evaluating the Rockets proposal to switch the order of the "draft" and "free agency". I actually think this proposal makes a lot of sense. I would think teams would want to have a better idea as to what is going to happen in free agency so they can than draft accordingly (especially teams like the Cavs who may take two different tacts depending on the outcome of a LBJ).  

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23911959/zach-lowe-houston-rockets-proposal-flip-nba-draft-free-agency

[Dick Allen]

3 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

NBA will be evaluating the Rockets proposal to switch the order of the "draft" and "free agency". I actually think this proposal makes a lot of sense. I would think teams would want to have a better idea as to what is going to happen in free agency so they can than draft accordingly (especially teams like the Cavs who may take two different tacts depending on the outcome of a LBJ).  

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23911959/zach-lowe-houston-rockets-proposal-flip-nba-draft-free-agency

It really does make sense. Especially considering the max guys don't take forever to sign.  

Edited June 27, 2018 by Dick Allen