thxfrthmmrs Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 I think the biggest difference is Hutch has potential to be a good defender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 In regards to the bulls chances of signing 2 max guys next year....  Let's say Lauri continues to develop and turns into the star a lot of people think he'll be, Lavine proves to be a good player, and WCJ looks legit..... of the 11 teams that can add 2 max players, is there a better core already in place?  If Kyrie and Jimmy wanna play together, is there a better fit than Kyrie-Lavine-Butler-Lauri-Carter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, scs787 said: In regards to the bulls chances of signing 2 max guys next year....  Let's say Lauri continues to develop and turns into the star a lot of people think he'll be, Lavine proves to be a good player, and WCJ looks legit..... of the 11 teams that can add 2 max players, is there a better core already in place?  If Kyrie and Jimmy wanna play together, is there a better fit than Kyrie-Lavine-Butler-Lauri-Carter? Kyrie wants to go to NY. Jimmy’s departure here wasn’t exactly smooth, although probably nothing a max contract can’t heal. But I see Jimmy playing the DWade role and play the Bulls then signing elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) In KC Johnson's mailbag today, he claims the Bulls will have room for 1 max guy next offseason.   It’s a broad projection since you can’t predict where the Bulls will be drafting and the value of that rookie deal. But general projections for 2019 free agency have the Bulls around $35 million of cap space. That’s room for one maximum free agent, not two. Edited July 12, 2018 by Dick Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 32 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: In KC Johnson's mailbag today, he claims the Bulls will have room for 1 max guy next offseason.   It’s a broad projection since you can’t predict where the Bulls will be drafting and the value of that rookie deal. But general projections for 2019 free agency have the Bulls around $35 million of cap space. That’s room for one maximum free agent, not two. KC is incorrect in his presumption. Bulls can get to two max...albeit that is pretty dependent on moving Felicio (a big if). KC's number ignores a lot of other factors that should be considered. The data I had pulled was from one of the better cap spots and kind of looked at the "true" projected cap of each team (gives a much better gauge at what teams will have). It does not include moving guys like Felicio, rather includes ways you can maximize cap space with existing guys, projected cap growth, etc. He is going at the pure number though, so it isn't factually wrong, but it is misleading in the full context of the equation.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 He ignores so much in that number, but considering KC is the mouthpiece for the org assume that they are not planning to create 2 max contract space. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 14 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said: KC is incorrect in his presumption. Bulls can get to two max...albeit that is pretty dependent on moving Felicio (a big if). KC's number ignores a lot of other factors that should be considered. The data I had pulled was from one of the better cap spots and kind of looked at the "true" projected cap of each team (gives a much better gauge at what teams will have). It does not include moving guys like Felicio, rather includes ways you can maximize cap space with existing guys, projected cap growth, etc. He is going at the pure number though, so it isn't factually wrong, but it is misleading in the full context of the equation.  I don't see where a team is going to help the Bulls out and take Felicio of their hands unless they give up some really nice picks.  BTW, there is a big problem trading for Melo if you want a first round pick from OKC. They traded their 2020 pick earlier, so they can't trade 2019 or 2021. The soonest you could get it would be 2022. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: I don't see where a team is going to help the Bulls out and take Felicio of their hands unless they give up some really nice picks.  BTW, there is a big problem trading for Melo if you want a first round pick from OKC. They traded their 2020 pick earlier, so they can't trade 2019 or 2021. The soonest you could get it would be 2022. I agree that moving Felicio will be tough. Bulls might need to dangle a pick (and the only way you are doing that is if you already know you have two max guys lined up, imo). The more preferred approach would be to take on a bigger expiring contract this year to help a team save in luxury tax (win / win...i.e., Carmelo Anthony) or you try to package Felicio with a guy like Portis or Valentine. Lets also hope that Felicio plays better this year (cause that would be a big help as well).  On your comment regarding the Thunder. Fantastic point. Certainly throws a wrench into those plans. Realistically I don't see the Thunder just giving up a draft pick which is why I think the "Felicio" type package makes a lot of sense with OKC. Doesn't mean it happens and there are plenty of other teams who might be interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 13, 2018 Author Share Posted July 13, 2018 Wat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 This seems odd. Bulls typically try to make right by guys and give them opportunities to play elsewhere if they aren't fits on the team, but Nwaba would have been a good add (in general). Presume too big of a gap existed between two teams and Bulls had enough intel that a RFA was going to come in that we wouldn't match anyway, but it still seems odd to make him outright (unless they needed to immediately clear his cap space for some other "impending" move...none of which I'm expecting).  In general, I'm kind of bummed cause I liked Nwaba but If he gets a LT deal at 6+M, I have a hard time justifying it (not because Nwaba isn't worth it...he absolutely is, but unfortunately, we aren't at the stage of the rebuild that we can afford having a Nwaba tie up cap space that can be used for more impactful FA's). That said, Nwaba is one of those guys, that if he build a better jumper, could really turn into a quality player (who'd be a bargain at 6M/yr).  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said: Wat? This pisses me off, especially since getting Nwaba was why they sold the 2nd round pick. For context. 1) They wanted Blakeney with the 2nd rounder 2) They wanted Nwaba 3) Didn't have enough roster space for Nwaba and a 2nd rounder, felt like Blakeney might slip out of the draft. 4) Sell the pick, keep Nwaba, sign Blakeney to a two way deal. But if they just let Nwaba walk for nothing, that's inexcusable because then they really should have just held onto Bell and not signed Felicio. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 20 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Wat? From a cap perspective, after waiving Kilpatrick and renouncing Nwaba, the Bulls are a Zipser release away from being able to trade felicio for Melo straight up. Or are the Bulls about to take a flyer on Jabari Parker? Not that they'd need to clear cap space for Parker.   Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 KC Johnson has reported that the Grant and Nwaba develoments were to set-up another move. Johnson only reports things that will absolutely happen (since he's largely a voice of the team). Wonder what is about to happen (obviously nothing that major in the grand scheme of things). Got to think their are more legs to this Melo deal.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 One other item to note but apparently today (or maybe tomorrow) would be the last day for the Bulls to be able to rescind the QO. One other option would be Denver (who had been looking to dump salary). Or maybe Deng is about to rejoin the Bulls haha.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 (edited) Vinnie Goodwill, who was all over the Lavine offer sheet, tweeted it makes you wonder if the Bulls are creatin room to absorb something. Seems it’s eithe Melo or Jabari or Hood. Although KC said he didn’t think the Bulls were interested in Hood. Edited July 13, 2018 by Dick Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 13, 2018 Author Share Posted July 13, 2018 13 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said: KC Johnson has reported that the Grant and Nwaba develoments were to set-up another move. Johnson only reports things that will absolutely happen (since he's largely a voice of the team). Wonder what is about to happen (obviously nothing that major in the grand scheme of things). Got to think their are more legs to this Melo deal.  I really hope this is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 Semi-related to Melo and Nwaba, I'd like to see Nwaba sign with the Thunder if not the Bulls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 Fun wrinkle: The 2021 Draft could be when high schoolers are put back in the draft and load it with talent. That's the earliest 1st rounder OKC can trade. Wouldn't make up for them losing Durant/Oden in the 2006 Draft, but, it's something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 Well, that makes this more interesting. Please don't sign Parker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 13, 2018 Author Share Posted July 13, 2018 Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:  That would have been nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 The fact that people are saying these moves are prelude to another move that hasn't yet happened makes me think that nothing will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 20 hours ago, Chisoxfn said: KC is incorrect in his presumption. Bulls can get to two max...albeit that is pretty dependent on moving Felicio (a big if). KC's number ignores a lot of other factors that should be considered. The data I had pulled was from one of the better cap spots and kind of looked at the "true" projected cap of each team (gives a much better gauge at what teams will have). It does not include moving guys like Felicio, rather includes ways you can maximize cap space with existing guys, projected cap growth, etc. He is going at the pure number though, so it isn't factually wrong, but it is misleading in the full context of the equation.  Lauri/Lavine/Carter/Hutch amounts to about $32.5 mil. Cap hold for a FPR (6-10) is about $5 mil. These are all but guaranteed to be on the books. Then you have FAs like Portis, Valentine, and Dunn, the $3 mil owed to Asik if you decline his option, and the $3.5 mil for roster space hold. Let's say if you got Felicio off the books completely, renounce Portis and Valentine, you still have about $50 mil on books and on cap hold. That leaves us about $58 mil cap space. Max deals are either $32.4 mil or $37.8 mil (KD only), so we could still get 2 max players if we convince them to take a slight discount, or sign them for full value if we trade away Dunn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 From what I read on line, it appears to be a set up for a Melo/Felicio swap. It needs the Nwaba QO rescinded  to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: From what I read on line, it appears to be a set up for a Melo/Felicio swap. It needs the Nwaba QO rescinded  to work. I'm still going to be skeptical that it will happen until it actually happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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