Dunning has medium elbow strain, out 6-8 weeks

[southsider2k5]

 

[Sarava]

Crossing my fingers

[BlackSox13]

Hopefully dunning will only need time off to rest that elbow.

[ScootsMcGoots]

Does every single important rebuild piece have to get injured at some point or another?

[ChiSox1917]

Cancel the rebuild!

[Sarava]

White Sox manager Rick Renteria downplayed the injury Sunday.

“I think everybody considered it a very moderate strain. Nobody is at this point too concerned,” he said.

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-spt-white-sox-dane-dunning-notes-20180624-story.html

[ChiSox59]

Hopefully this is a bullet dodged. 

[steveno89]

23 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

Really hoping that Dunning is ok. 

This is why you stockpile as much pitching as possible

[chitownsportsfan]

20 hours ago, Sarava said:

White Sox manager Rick Renteria downplayed the injury Sunday.

“I think everybody considered it a very moderate strain. Nobody is at this point too concerned,” he said.

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-spt-white-sox-dane-dunning-notes-20180624-story.html

Ricky shouldn't have said anything, just stupid to have the MLB manager speculating on a prospect's medical condition.  Anytime there is pain and soreness in a pitcher's elbow, so much so that he has to leave the game -- it's concerning.

Hopefully it's a minor tear, at worst, not requiring surgery, but it's certainly concerning nonetheless.

[Lillian]

Maybe the medical profession needs to improve the TJ surgery and give pitchers some kind of "bionic arm". Then, every prospect could just have the procedure, before going pro. Seriously, it is getting out of hand. This was never anywhere near as prevalent, back when pitchers threw more often and many more pitches, per outing. Imagine how many guys would be out of the game, if it weren't for Tommy John Surgery, which didn't even exist, back then. 

[chitownsportsfan]

20 minutes ago, Lillian said:

Maybe the medical profession needs to improve the TJ surgery and give pitchers some kind of "bionic arm". Then, every prospect could just have the procedure, before going pro. Seriously, it is getting out of hand. This was never anywhere near as prevalent, back when pitchers threw more often and many more pitches, per outing. Imagine how many guys would be out of the game, if it weren't for Tommy John Surgery, which didn't even exist, back then. 

it's the increased forces on the elbow with velocity, at least somewhat, contributing to all the injuries.  Another component is how hyper aware we all are of it now.   Back in Hawk's day if a guy got hurt and missed the rest of his career that was it.  Never heard from him again.  There's probably so many of these guys from the past that never even got a chance because of a blown elbow in HS or college or otherwise.

[southsider2k5]

23 minutes ago, Lillian said:

Maybe the medical profession needs to improve the TJ surgery and give pitchers some kind of "bionic arm". Then, every prospect could just have the procedure, before going pro. Seriously, it is getting out of hand. This was never anywhere near as prevalent, back when pitchers threw more often and many more pitches, per outing. Imagine how many guys would be out of the game, if it weren't for Tommy John Surgery, which didn't even exist, back then. 

Players are going harder than ever.  Instead of throwing at 80% for 120 pitches, they go at 100% for 95 pitches. The latter is more prone to injury than the former. 

[Lillian]

I've been following the Sox for 66 years, and I remember seeing a lot of the same pitchers, in each era. Very few of them blew out their arms. It's only anecdotal and I can't provide any statistics. I just remember that it wasn't something that a fan worried about. You could pretty much count on a guy to make his starts and go late into the game. If today's pitchers didn't have TJS available, it seems half of them would be out of the game, and early in their careers.

I don't have an explanation and I don't know what they are doing, but someone should seriously consider changing the current approach to pitching. I doubt that the fastball is the culprit. It seems more likely that it's trying to throw some of the breaking pitches, with the lower seams. That is what puts more strain on the elbow. Fastballs and change ups are the two best pitches in baseball, especially when effectively combined. The change of speed, with a deceptive motion, is still the most effective way to get batters out. That and location is more important than throwing curveballs, sliders and maybe even cutters. To that point, which of those breaking pitches puts the most stress on the elbow?

Edited June 26, 2018 by Lillian

[caulfield12]

The slider and forkball, by far.  #3 would be a harder breaking curveball, what would becreferred to as a slurve.

Sandy Koufax was one of those guys who you read about and marvel how he persevered with duct tape and icy hot when modern medical technology would have prolonged his career another decade.

[ptatc]

9 hours ago, Lillian said:

I've been following the Sox for 66 years, and I remember seeing a lot of the same pitchers, in each era. Very few of them blew out their arms. It's only anecdotal and I can't provide any statistics. I just remember that it wasn't something that a fan worried about. You could pretty much count on a guy to make his starts and go late into the game. If today's pitchers didn't have TJS available, it seems half of them would be out of the game, and early in their careers.

I don't have an explanation and I don't know what they are doing, but someone should seriously consider changing the current approach to pitching. I doubt that the fastball is the culprit. It seems more likely that it's trying to throw some of the breaking pitches, with the lower seams. That is what puts more strain on the elbow. Fastballs and change ups are the two best pitches in baseball, especially when effectively combined. The change of speed, with a deceptive motion, is still the most effective way to get batters out. That and location is more important than throwing curveballs, sliders and maybe even cutters. To that point, which of those breaking pitches puts the most stress on the elbow?

In my opinion the reason why you didn't see the injuries is because most of them happened in the minors and they were weeded out before they even made it to the MLB. There were fewer teams and fewer pitchers were needed so they didn't worry about the ones who couldn't make it. 

Biomechanically if the pitchers are thrown correctly the split finger is the pitch which is the worst for the arm. All of the others are fairly even. The issues becomes that pitchers try  to alter the pitch to make it move more get a different look. The classic example of this is the slider. It's supposed to just break a little down and across. However if the pitcher drops down a litle it moves further across making it much different than the fastball. This howeverputs a lot of strainon the elbow.

In today's game the example is adding the velocity and trying for strikeouts. Pitchers in the past would try for soft contact to get outs with fewer pitches to last deep into games. The current philosophy is to throw harder to avoid contact this causes them to throw more pitches and they are out earlier in the game. This is why bullpens are so much more important as theyare usually lesser talented pitchers so whichever tteam has the better lesser talented pitchers wins because the starters are out earlier.

[oldsox]

3 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

The slider and forkball, by far.  #3 would be a harder breaking curveball, what would becreferred to as a slurve.

Sandy Koufax was one of those guys who you read about and marvel how he persevered with duct tape and icy hot when modern medical technology would have prolonged his career another decade.

Duct tape?

[caulfield12]

18 minutes ago, oldsox said:

Duct tape?

Just a saying....held together by duct tape and baling wire.

Edited June 26, 2018 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

 

[ptatc]

37 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

That's good because the information this comes from is based on the physical exam.

[chitownsportsfan]

3 minutes ago, ptatc said:

That's good because the information this comes from is based on the physical exam.

Good old fashioned physical exams.  Do you know of any technology that allows trainers and the medical team to measure the forces a player is putting on his elbow?

I did find this, interesting:

 

https://www.drivelinebaseball.com/2016/10/elbow-stress-motus-sleeve-velocity/

Edited June 26, 2018 by chitownsportsfan

[Lillian]

8 hours ago, ptatc said:

In my opinion the reason why you didn't see the injuries is because most of them happened in the minors and they were weeded out before they even made it to the MLB. There were fewer teams and fewer pitchers were needed so they didn't worry about the ones who couldn't make it. 

Biomechanically if the pitchers are thrown correctly the split finger is the pitch which is the worst for the arm. All of the others are fairly even. The issues becomes that pitchers try  to alter the pitch to make it move more get a different look. The classic example of this is the slider. It's supposed to just break a little down and across. However if the pitcher drops down a litle it moves further across making it much different than the fastball. This howeverputs a lot of strainon the elbow.

In today's game the example is adding the velocity and trying for strikeouts. Pitchers in the past would try for soft contact to get outs with fewer pitches to last deep into games. The current philosophy is to throw harder to avoid contact this causes them to throw more pitches and they are out earlier in the game. This is why bullpens are so much more important as theyare usually lesser talented pitchers so whichever tteam has the better lesser talented pitchers wins because the starters are out earlier.

Interesting points. Your explanation poses a dilemma. Some argue that the younger pitcher, with less "wear and tear" on his arm, is a safer bet to stay healthy, at least for the near term. Perhaps that assumption should be weighed against your assertion that pitchers who survive their earlier years, as a pro, may have a higher probability of avoiding these kinds of injuries, given their history of staying healthy.

Edited June 26, 2018 by Lillian

[Sleepy Harold]

 

[Princess Dye]

Chuck Garfien‏Verified account @ChuckGarfien 2m2 minutes ago

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White Sox are cautiously optimistic about Dane Dunning‘s elbow. He’s having an MRI tomorrow.

[ptatc]

4 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Good old fashioned physical exams.  Do you know of any technology that allows trainers and the medical team to measure the forces a player is putting on his elbow?

I did find this, interesting:

 

https://www.drivelinebaseball.com/2016/10/elbow-stress-motus-sleeve-velocity/

Yes they do. You can attach accelerometers to the limb. There gave been many studies using these while studying mechanical stress and loads on the joints. As far as the elbow is concerned, there is enough stress on it during a normal correct pitch to rupture the ligament. The flexor muscle mass is what adds extra strength to keep it together. This is why the flexor strains are important to watch. It could allow to much stress on the ligament to cause injury.

I haven't seen the device you mention here. However, anything out of ASMI and Fleisig is done very well. In the world of throwing and sports medicine research he is at the top of the food chain.

Edited June 26, 2018 by ptatc

[ptatc]

4 hours ago, Lillian said:

Interesting points. Your explanation poses a dilemma. Some argue that the younger pitcher, with less "wear and tear" on his arm, is a safer bet to stay healthy, at least for the near term. Perhaps that assumption should be weighed against your assertion that pitchers who survive their earlier years, as a pro, may have a higher probability of avoiding these kinds of injuries, given their history of staying healthy.

It's 2 components of the same issue. Staying healthy while pitching is a multi-issue. Some of it is genetics as I stated. Another part is the ability of the tissues to absorb force, youth helps in that regard. Another part is decreasing the load on the tissue while maintaining a high level of performance, this is proper mechanics. Some pitchers just don't  have as much natural ability and need to find a way to make the hitters be off balance. This is when they change mechanics to give the hitters a different look.