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ChiSoxJon

Trade Proposals

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1 hour ago, ChiSoxJon said:

Can't wait for the floodgates to open...real curious what Hahn can net for Soria and maybe Shields...If Happ is the most coveted starter, maybe Hahn can actually get something decent instead of cash

hopefully package shields and soria together to find a Rutherford like deal.  It's amazing but James Shields has actually been a corpulent 4th/5th starter this year.  Kudos to the dude for learning how to pitch with really diminished stuff.  The Mariners are an obvious partner.  The one kid the M's  got, former 1st round pick, the OF who's battled knee injuries, that could be a guy they could realistically target.

edit: imma just leave "cromulent" going to "corpulent" in auto correct.

Edited by chitownsportsfan

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7 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

It boggles my mind that a hardcore fan (who really likes Jose and watches him) could watch him every day for the last month and think he's contributing to winning. 

You don't need a spreadsheet for that. 

Jose has looked quite a bit like Konerko circa 2013.  A guy that can no longer cover the inside corner and is completely screwed as a result.  I love Jose Abreu but he's been worthless this year.  Don't even get me started on his defense.

It's insane. Jose Abreu is a demigod around these parts. He could stand in the middle of a soxtalk meet up and shoot somebody and people here would still vote for him to be an all star. 

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5 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

 

edit: imma just leave "cromulent" going to "corpulent" in auto correct.

 

 

I had to look up both words.

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6 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

hopefully package shields and soria together to find a Rutherford like deal.  It's amazing but James Shields has actually been a corpulent 4th/5th starter this year.  Kudos to the dude for learning how to pitch with really diminished stuff.  The Mariners are an obvious partner.  The one kid the M's  got, former 1st round pick, the OF who's battled knee injuries, that could be a guy they could realistically target.

edit: imma just leave "cromulent" going to "corpulent" in auto correct.

That'd be nice but highly unlikely CWS will be adding a Top 100 prospect this Deadline, maybe someone somewhat regarded however....Hell, Hahn got Cordell for Swarzak and even traded Jennings for Gillaspie who is around the level of prospect that should be netted now

Can't wait

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1 hour ago, ChiSoxJon said:

That'd be nice but highly unlikely CWS will be adding a Top 100 prospect this Deadline, maybe someone somewhat regarded however....Hell, Hahn got Cordell for Swarzak and even traded Jennings for Gillaspie who is around the level of prospect that should be netted now

Can't wait

The problem with the deals like Jennings for Gillaspie is that they are only going to contribute to more losing. You are taking a useful MLB reliever and getting a player who has very little chance to contribute at the MLB level.  Where would the Sox bullpen be if they kept the players in these one for one minor deals? They are fine in the past when they are currently trying to lose but they should really start changing the philosophy because they will want to win soon. Useful MLB pieces are more valuable to winning than players whose chance of even making the MLB are minimal.

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You go young and try a reverse Shields for "he who shall not be named"  We are facing a 40 man roster crunch.  You need to go with guys who are 2+ years away from needing to be protected.

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1 hour ago, ptatc said:

The problem with the deals like Jennings for Gillaspie is that they are only going to contribute to more losing. You are taking a useful MLB reliever and getting a player who has very little chance to contribute at the MLB level.  Where would the Sox bullpen be if they kept the players in these one for one minor deals? They are fine in the past when they are currently trying to lose but they should really start changing the philosophy because they will want to win soon. Useful MLB pieces are more valuable to winning than players whose chance of even making the MLB are minimal.

Where would the White Sox be if they kept these guys? Dan Jennings right now is doing decent with the Rays but he's a 30 year old left handed reliever. You know the amazing thing? We currently, already, have better left handed relievers on today's White Sox roster. Our bullpen wouldn't be any better with Jennings. Gillaspie was a 2016 Avisail Garcia when we got him - a wild card with some nonzero chance of breaking out and some nonzero chance of washing away completely. For a left handed reliever who will be 31 last year, that's the type of move the White Sox should be making. It's the type of move they should have been making in 2015 and 2016, and the fact that they were doing the opposite is why their organization was so bereft of talent by the end. What are the chances that an international signed shortstop will blow up into a top prospect in baseball, or that a guy we never bothered to coach on defensive footwork could be a decent SS?

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38 minutes ago, BamaDoc said:

You go young and try a reverse Shields for "he who shall not be named"  We are facing a 40 man roster crunch.  You need to go with guys who are 2+ years away from needing to be protected.

The fun part is the guys you target also need somewhere to play.  We really can't bring in another OF at most of the teams in the system.  Pitching is also pretty full at most teams.  I don't know who is out there, but we need to be targeting SS and 3B if at all possible.

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2 hours ago, ptatc said:

The problem with the deals like Jennings for Gillaspie is that they are only going to contribute to more losing. You are taking a useful MLB reliever and getting a player who has very little chance to contribute at the MLB level.  Where would the Sox bullpen be if they kept the players in these one for one minor deals? They are fine in the past when they are currently trying to lose but they should really start changing the philosophy because they will want to win soon. Useful MLB pieces are more valuable to winning than players whose chance of even making the MLB are minimal.

Jennings was also a guy who was a free agent shortly after that trade, and a guy who was released in spring training.  He is the definition of a fungible reliever.  Even if Gillaspie bombs, which he probably will, that is a deal you make every single time as a team in the position that the Sox are/were in.

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25 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Jennings was also a guy who was a free agent shortly after that trade, and a guy who was released in spring training.  He is the definition of a fungible reliever.  Even if Gillaspie bombs, which he probably will, that is a deal you make every single time as a team in the position that the Sox are/were in.

The bolded is untrue, Jennings is still under team control via arbitration through 2020.

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3 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Where would the White Sox be if they kept these guys? Dan Jennings right now is doing decent with the Rays but he's a 30 year old left handed reliever. You know the amazing thing? We currently, already, have better left handed relievers on today's White Sox roster. Our bullpen wouldn't be any better with Jennings. Gillaspie was a 2016 Avisail Garcia when we got him - a wild card with some nonzero chance of breaking out and some nonzero chance of washing away completely. For a left handed reliever who will be 31 last year, that's the type of move the White Sox should be making. It's the type of move they should have been making in 2015 and 2016, and the fact that they were doing the opposite is why their organization was so bereft of talent by the end. What are the chances that an international signed shortstop will blow up into a top prospect in baseball, or that a guy we never bothered to coach on defensive footwork could be a decent SS?

If you read, I said they need to stop it soon if they want to win soon. Those deals were fine when they were trying to lose. But co tongues talk of trading Abreu will be detrimental to winning going forward if all they get is a Gillespie type player.

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55 minutes ago, ptatc said:

If you read, I said they need to stop it soon if they want to win soon. Those deals were fine when they were trying to lose. But co tongues talk of trading Abreu will be detrimental to winning going forward if all they get is a Gillespie type player.

Why is talk of trading Abreu detrimental when Abreu has been this bad of a player? Right now Jose Abreu looks like he's going to absolutely need replaced before the White Sox can talk about being competitive full time. He may have some good time left in him, but 2x in the last 3 seasons he's gone into multi-month slumps and put up disappointing numbers overall. I wouldn't trade for that or sign that. Right now, Jose Abreu would be a salary dump, they'd be lucky to get a Gillespie back for him, and the White Sox should not need to do salary dumps right now.

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1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

Why is talk of trading Abreu detrimental when Abreu has been this bad of a player? Right now Jose Abreu looks like he's going to absolutely need replaced before the White Sox can talk about being competitive full time. He may have some good time left in him, but 2x in the last 3 seasons he's gone into multi-month slumps and put up disappointing numbers overall. I wouldn't trade for that or sign that. Right now, Jose Abreu would be a salary dump, they'd be lucky to get a Gillespie back for him, and the White Sox should not need to do salary dumps right now.

When you have an opinion on something, you really go balls to the wall.

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6 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

 When you have an opinion on something, you really go balls to the wall.

Over the last 45 games, more than 1/4 of a season, he's hit .180 with a .538 OPS. He may still have another good stretch in him, but how on Earth could you count on him down the stretch if you were a competitive team? If your 1b got hurt, you'd take him on as a salary dump/replacement candidate, but you're not giving up anything of value for that. If you're going to trade something of value to upgrade your 1b position you'd go get Justin Smoak. So unless the White Sox are for some reason desperate to move his salary, he's not moving and we'll have to see if he snaps out of this.

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21 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Over the last 45 games, more than 1/4 of a season, he's hit .180 with a .538 OPS. He may still have another good stretch in him, but how on Earth could you count on him down the stretch if you were a competitive team? If your 1b got hurt, you'd take him on as a salary dump/replacement candidate, but you're not giving up anything of value for that. If you're going to trade something of value to upgrade your 1b position you'd go get Justin Smoak. So unless the White Sox are for some reason desperate to move his salary, he's not moving and we'll have to see if he snaps out of this.

Jose has been terrible over the last 6 weeks. I agree.  I tend to think he'll snap out of it at some point.  I agree that he's certainly not at peak value, and was never going to get the Sox a blue chipper anyway, but he's definitely not a salary dump because he's struggled for a few weeks.

In all likelihood, he was never going anywhere anyway.    

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1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

Why is talk of trading Abreu detrimental when Abreu has been this bad of a player? Right now Jose Abreu looks like he's going to absolutely need replaced before the White Sox can talk about being competitive full time. He may have some good time left in him, but 2x in the last 3 seasons he's gone into multi-month slumps and put up disappointing numbers overall. I wouldn't trade for that or sign that. Right now, Jose Abreu would be a salary dump, they'd be lucky to get a Gillespie back for him, and the White Sox should not need to do salary dumps right now.

It would be a bad deal because he could possibly return to some use and the return would be minimal. They just wouldn't get a return worth anything. They don't need a salary dump. The payroll is minimal. They should just keep him, have a chance he'll improve and keep goodwill with the other Cuban players

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9 minutes ago, ptatc said:

It would be a bad deal because he could possibly return to some use and the return would be minimal. They just wouldn't get a return worth anything. They don't need a salary dump. The payroll is minimal. They should just keep him, have a chance he'll improve and keep goodwill with the other Cuban players

That's exactly what they have done.  They haven't just dumped anyone as of yet.  They have waited for return, if they get it, the player gets moved.  If they don't get it, they stay.

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6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

That's exactly what they have done.  They haven't just dumped anyone as of yet.  They have waited for return, if they get it, the player gets moved.  If they don't get it, they stay.

This I would agree with. I just can't see anyone giving up a worthwhile return for him when he has been playing this poorly. I would rather take the chance that he improves because they don't need to do it for a salary dump.

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Lets try and get this discussion broken up in multiple threads. This is becoming kind of just a random catch-all thread with lots of good discussion, but becomes harder to follow, especially as news and other things get embedded within.  

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6 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Where would the White Sox be if they kept these guys? Dan Jennings right now is doing decent with the Rays but he's a 30 year old left handed reliever. You know the amazing thing? We currently, already, have better left handed relievers on today's White Sox roster. Our bullpen wouldn't be any better with Jennings. Gillaspie was a 2016 Avisail Garcia when we got him - a wild card with some nonzero chance of breaking out and some nonzero chance of washing away completely. For a left handed reliever who will be 31 last year, that's the type of move the White Sox should be making. It's the type of move they should have been making in 2015 and 2016, and the fact that they were doing the opposite is why their organization was so bereft of talent by the end. What are the chances that an international signed shortstop will blow up into a top prospect in baseball, or that a guy we never bothered to coach on defensive footwork could be a decent SS?

Exactly but we still haven't come up with our version of Scooter Gennett or Aguilar or Chris Taylor or Max Muncy which concerns me .  I will say Ti'Quan Forbes is looking good and Sox have had some success in the past with Quintana, Kahnle, Gavin Floyd and Matt Thorton.

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21 hours ago, GreenSox said:

Do you believe they really did that? FO virtually unchanged; Getz is new and the scouting director is new and a smooth a talker, but also a White Sox lifer (and, of course, they blame the Fulmer pick on the prior scouting director). It goes well beyond Tatis, although that deal brought to a head the ongoing problem of consistently poor talent evaluation, as that was an epic failure on both sides of the swap.
Even in the dispersal, so far their have been no diamonds in the rough, whereas the Cubs, Brewers and Astros got several.  Maybe the minors will be more productive- they look more productive - but every team has players with good stats in A and AA.  

In case you missed it. This from the recent Future Sox article on Jimmy Lambert:

Everett Teaford, a former major leaguer pitcher with Kansas City and mostly recently Tampa Bay in 2015, was a pro scout for the Houston Astros until the White Sox hired him to join their player development staff last November. The 34 year-old Teaford is paying immediate dividends in his first season with the Sox, helping Lambert "all along the way" to improve by using his analytic pitching numbers.

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6 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Jennings was also a guy who was a free agent shortly after that trade, and a guy who was released in spring training.  He is the definition of a fungible reliever.  Even if Gillaspie bombs, which he probably will, that is a deal you make every single time as a team in the position that the Sox are/were in.

I swear sometimes people on the board are like my students and just pick up the conversion to suit their own purpose. Of course you make that deal at that stage of the rebuild, but again the comment was the Sox should no longer be in that position. They should be looking to acquire either close to MLB talent or a Tatis type player. At this stage of the rebuild they should shift their focus to players who have a good chance to help them win or someone who is a high ceiling player who will help in 4 years. Not just some flyer who mostly wont contribute at the MLB level.

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3 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I swear sometimes people on the board are like my students and just pick up the conversion to suit their own purpose. Of course you make that deal at that stage of the rebuild, but again the comment was the Sox should no longer be in that position. They should be looking to acquire either close to MLB talent or a Tatis type player. At this stage of the rebuild they should shift their focus to players who have a good chance to help them win or someone who is a high ceiling player who will help in 4 years. Not just some flyer who mostly wont contribute at the MLB level.

At this stage they need to find guys who they can play.  For once, they have to be choosy about position and level.

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1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

At this stage they need to find guys who they can play.  For once, they have to be choosy about position and level.

Yes. All trade proposals should be centered around players who can help them not  AAAA fodder.

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