Trade Proposals

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, wrathofhahn said:

I don't agree with that either because when it comes to trades as we all know there are limited buyers for guys and the prospects pools of these farms are limited as well. I wouldn't want to trade for a guy whose a lesser prospect just to fill a need. If the prospects hits they'll be a market for him anyways like I said in the other thread we don't need to really worry about positions at this point what is most important is talent. Also playing in the AL always leaves an extra roster spot to work with (DH).

Besides when they are in the minor leagues you can move them around most guys don't even end up in the same position they were drafted at.

Why would you trade for a guy that you can't play in the minors?  So you can either not play them, or stunt the growth of others?  You have to be able to play the key guys.  A perfect example is what are you going to do with another OF in the low to mid minors?

[wrathofhahn]

32 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Why would you trade for a guy that you can't play in the minors?  So you can either not play them, or stunt the growth of others?  You have to be able to play the key guys.  A perfect example is what are you going to do with another OF in the low to mid minors?

You can move them around. Mejia who was just traded is a perfect example of this if they are still young enough there is plenty of time to learn another position in the minor leagues infact in many cases the position they entered the minors is not the position they exit the minors playing fulltime.

All you are doing is just expediting the natural process. Hell in a ton of cases they can be moved around at the MLB level as well. You have to make allowances for talent.

Edited July 20, 2018 by wrathofhahn

[Y2Jimmy0]

3 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Not only would that be a terrible move for Gurriel, but they can play Kyle Tucker there and get experience for one of their rookies. 

Houston is going to acquire bullpen help. It's not even a rumor, they've said it repeatedly. I've never seen any rumor that they're going to move Gurriel away from 1b, there's no talk of it whatsoever close to Houston. They're not giving you anything for a 1b right now, let alone one who has been terrible for the last month and a half. 

Richard Justice said Astros were interested in Abreu on mlbnetwork this morning. Maybe he was lying though. 

[Sticky Stuff]

2 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Richard Justice said Astros were interested in Abreu on mlbnetwork this morning. Maybe he was lying though. 

He didn’t say more than we’ve already heard. He gave more detail about the Astros interest in Britton more than Abreu

[username]

Yeah can everyone please chill out about Abreu?  The important metrics on his season aren’t as good as last year, but they’re within the range of his last 4 years for everything from hard hit % to fly ball rate.

 

His BABIP has been suppressed, and assuming regression towards the mean he’d be around an .850 OPS. Smart teams know this stuff. Is his value likely slightly suppressed? Yes. But he has value and he’s a far superior player to Gurriel. 90 games doesn’t change that. 

 

Will the market value him properly?  We have no idea. Stop acting like the notion of him getting a real return is preposterous.

Edited July 20, 2018 by username

[southsider2k5]

22 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

You can move them around. Mejia who was just traded is a perfect example of this if they are still young enough there is plenty of time to learn another position in the minor leagues infact in many cases the position they entered the minors is not the position they exit the minors playing fulltime.

All you are doing is just expediting the natural process. Hell in a ton of cases they can be moved around at the MLB level as well. You have to make allowances for talent.

Meija was also able to play every day in the minors.

[Dam8610]

My crazy idea that people are going to say is too much:

RP Joakim Soria, RP Jace Fry, SP James Shields, 1B/3B Matt Davidson to Braves for SP Kolby Allard, 3B Austin Riley, C William Contreras, LHP Kyle Muller, INF Braulio Vazquez

I'll wait for the "That's way to much"s and the "They'll never give up that"s. I really want the top three, the other two are interesting looking fliers.

Edited July 20, 2018 by Dam8610
Apparently Drew Waters is a Top 100 prospect, I like Muller better, and the Braves have a lot of pitching so they're more likely to part with Muller than Waters

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, Dam8610 said:

My crazy idea that people are going to say is too much:

RP Joakim Soria, RP Jace Fry, SP James Shields, 1B/3B Matt Davidson to Braves for SP Kolby Allard, 3B Austin Riley, C William Contreras, CF Drew Waters, INF Braulio Vazquez

I'll wait for the "That's way to much"s and the "They'll never give up that"s. I really want the top three, the other two are interesting looking fliers.

I would love to see it happen for sure.  Allard + Riley would be huge adds all by themselves.

[chitownsportsfan]

50 minutes ago, username said:

Yeah can everyone please chill out about Abreu?  The important metrics on his season aren’t as good as last year, but they’re within the range of his last 4 years for everything from hard hit % to fly ball rate.

 

His BABIP has been suppressed, and assuming regression towards the mean he’d be around an .850 OPS. Smart teams know this stuff. Is his value likely slightly suppressed? Yes. But he has value and he’s a far superior player to Gurriel. 90 games doesn’t change that. 

 

Will the market value him properly?  We have no idea. Stop acting like the notion of him getting a real return is preposterous.

1st bold: Hard hit rate is down 5%.  IF popout rate is up 6%.  He's simply not making quality contact as often as in the past.  Which is reflected in his BABIP.

2nd bold: ZIPS rest of season projects him for .9 WAR.  Not sure how much return the Sox are going to get for that.  An C+ guy and a PTBNL?  Not even worth it.  Might as well just keep him and see what happens in the offseason with his contract situation.  Not really much to lose if he just wants to walk.  If he wants to come back, ok, but if not, no big deal.

[steveno89]

14 minutes ago, Dam8610 said:

My crazy idea that people are going to say is too much:

RP Joakim Soria, RP Jace Fry, SP James Shields, 1B/3B Matt Davidson to Braves for SP Kolby Allard, 3B Austin Riley, C William Contreras, CF Drew Waters, INF Braulio Vazquez

I'll wait for the "That's way to much"s and the "They'll never give up that"s. I really want the top three, the other two are interesting looking fliers.

Way too much going on in that deal in my opinion.

Braves aren’t giving up Allard, Riley, Contreras and Waters for that package, and I don’t think it’s close. 

Soria could get us a solid piece, but Shields, Fry and Davidson aren’t all that valuable 

[Flash]

If Shields holds his own tonight and Soria impresses, they might want to find an apartment in Seattle while they are there. Seattle could use them both and packaging them might yield someone of value. 

[Wanne]

5 minutes ago, Flash said:

If Shields holds his own tonight and Soria impresses, they might want to find an apartment in Seattle while they are there. Seattle could use them both and packaging them might yield someone of value. 

I don't know...there's literally nobody in the Mariners systems I'm enamored with.   Maybe I'm not savvy to some of them...which is probably the case...but still a bunch of meh.

[Chicago White Sox]

6 minutes ago, Flash said:

If Shields holds his own tonight and Soria impresses, they might want to find an apartment in Seattle while they are there. Seattle could use them both and packaging them might yield someone of value. 

Seattle doesn’t really have anything of value that Soria alone couldn’t net other than maybe Kyle Lewis.

[Chicago White Sox]

2 minutes ago, Wanne said:

I don't know...there's literally nobody in the Mariners systems I'm enamored with.   Maybe I'm not savvy to some of them...which is probably the case...but still a bunch of meh.

I mean, their system is probably worse than most of our pre-rebuild systems.

[Dam8610]

17 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

Way too much going on in that deal in my opinion.

Braves aren’t giving up Allard, Riley, Contreras and Waters for that package, and I don’t think it’s close. 

Soria could get us a solid piece, but Shields, Fry and Davidson aren’t all that valuable 

Fry isn't valuable? I thought he'd have a Kahnle type thing going on, except with 6 years of control beyond this year. He was the piece that put Riley in the deal for me

[fathom]

23 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

Way too much going on in that deal in my opinion.

Braves aren’t giving up Allard, Riley, Contreras and Waters for that package, and I don’t think it’s close. 

Soria could get us a solid piece, but Shields, Fry and Davidson aren’t all that valuable 

That package puts them in the conversation for an ace.  That's 4 possible top 100 guys 

[Dam8610]

Just now, fathom said:

That package puts them in the conversation for an ace.  That's 4 possible top 100 guys 

I didn't know Waters was valued so highly. Would Kyle Muller make it more realistic?

[Balta1701]

The problem is - Fry is a left handed bullpen pitcher with a 2.29 FIP and what, 6 full years of control remaining? If you think he's that pitcher, you'd be silly to trade him for less than that because that's a huge asset in coming years. But, he's been that pitcher for less than 30 innings, so it's a huge gamble to think he'll stay that pitcher. So, the White Sox shouldn't give him up for less than something like ace value given how long he's under control (Imagine Andrew Miller with 6 years of control!), but what team is going to give up that kind of value for a guy who has only proven what he can do for those 30 innings?

[Dam8610]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

The problem is - Fry is a left handed bullpen pitcher with a 2.29 FIP and what, 6 full years of control remaining? If you think he's that pitcher, you'd be silly to trade him for less than that because that's a huge asset in coming years. But, he's been that pitcher for less than 30 innings, so it's a huge gamble to think he'll stay that pitcher. So, the White Sox shouldn't give him up for less than something like ace value given how long he's under control (Imagine Andrew Miller with 6 years of control!), but what team is going to give up that kind of value for a guy who has only proven what he can do for those 30 innings?

I'd trade him in a package for a package that included Allard and Riley. The Braves would just have to believe that he's that guy, but there's precedent for it (Yankees with Kahnle last year).

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

8 minutes ago, fathom said:

That package puts them in the conversation for an ace.  That's 4 possible top 100 guys 

Oh, just swap out Shields with Rodon and all set 😉

[Chicago White Sox]

I don’t see Riley being attainable under any scenario.  He’s their future at 3B and they have way too many arms they can use to fill holes as needed.  Allard or Fried might be attainable for Fry though.

[Chicago White Sox]

7 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The problem is - Fry is a left handed bullpen pitcher with a 2.29 FIP and what, 6 full years of control remaining? If you think he's that pitcher, you'd be silly to trade him for less than that because that's a huge asset in coming years. But, he's been that pitcher for less than 30 innings, so it's a huge gamble to think he'll stay that pitcher. So, the White Sox shouldn't give him up for less than something like ace value given how long he's under control (Imagine Andrew Miller with 6 years of control!), but what team is going to give up that kind of value for a guy who has only proven what he can do for those 30 innings?

You realize he’s had two TJ surgies and is a reliever that somewhat came out of nowhere.   There’s plenty of reasons to cash in now depending on the return.

[fathom]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I don’t see Riley being attainable under any scenario.  He’s their future at 3B and they have way too many arms they can use to fill holes as needed.  Allard or Fried might be attainable for Fry though.

Contreras is also drawing rave reviews this year

[wrathofhahn]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The problem is - Fry is a left handed bullpen pitcher with a 2.29 FIP and what, 6 full years of control remaining? If you think he's that pitcher, you'd be silly to trade him for less than that because that's a huge asset in coming years. But, he's been that pitcher for less than 30 innings, so it's a huge gamble to think he'll stay that pitcher. So, the White Sox shouldn't give him up for less than something like ace value given how long he's under control (Imagine Andrew Miller with 6 years of control!), but what team is going to give up that kind of value for a guy who has only proven what he can do for those 30 innings?

It isn't that complicated you can't imagine the best case borderline homeristic scenario for Frye then say the return is too little.

It's a similar situation to Kahnle if we get a good return for him top 100 he should be moved even if we have to give up another asset. Let some other team gamble he'll be the next Miller. Relievers are not good gambles in my book let alone ones with a history of arm problems that have come out of nowhere.

Edited July 20, 2018 by wrathofhahn

[Chicago White Sox]

5 minutes ago, Dam8610 said:

I'd trade him in a package for a package that included Allard and Riley. The Braves would just have to believe that he's that guy, but there's precedent for it (Yankees with Kahnle last year).

Kahnle plus Robertson (who had some value) and the remains of Frazier got us a descending top 100 type prospect in Rutherford plus a C prospest in Clarkin.  A Riley + Allard package is significantly more valuable IMO and while Kahnle didn’t have much a track record either he did have eye popping stuff.