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Brad Hand to the Indians


Sleepy Harold
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6 minutes ago, Dam8610 said:

No contender could use a backend rotation innings eater, a LHRP, and a high leverage reliever? I just don't believe that. I think some team would look at Soria, Avilan, and Shields and give the Sox something good for that package, especially if they're not paying a dime for those three players.

I have a hard time calling Soria a high leverage reliever, even if he has been closing for the White Sox.  His stuff is largely gone and he gets by on deception for the most part.  Shields is basically the same description.   While I think he could help a team in the 6th and 7th innings, he isn't going to be an 8th or 9th inning guy for a team looking to make the playoffs.  Just thinking back to what the Yankees gave up for David Robertson, Tommy Kahnle and Todd Frazier, I can't put the package of players we are talking about here anywhere NEAR that group.  We got a back end top 100 player and some other pieces for that group.  I can't expect something even close to that for Soria, Shields and Avilan.

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51 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

Take notes Hahn. Let's package some of our guys to get a better prospect. Soria, Cedeno, and Avilan in the same trade even. Obviously wouldn't get someone like Mejia but maybe a top 100?

To be fair, he did do this last year with Rutherford.

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5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I have a hard time calling Soria a high leverage reliever, even if he has been closing for the White Sox.  His stuff is largely gone and he gets by on deception for the most part.  Shields is basically the same description.   While I think he could help a team in the 6th and 7th innings, he isn't going to be an 8th or 9th inning guy for a team looking to make the playoffs.  Just thinking back to what the Yankees gave up for David Robertson, Tommy Kahnle and Todd Frazier, I can't put the package of players we are talking about here anywhere NEAR that group.  We got a back end top 100 player and some other pieces for that group.  I can't expect something even close to that for Soria, Shields and Avilan.

I gotta disagree with your take on Soria.  His velocity is down a little bit, but nothing substantial.  He's posted the second highest K/9 of his career (and since 2009) at 11.25 and the highest swinging strike % of his career at 14.7%.  His BB rate & HR/9 are also below his career average.  He's actually been one of the better relievers in baseball this year and I think there will be plenty of interest in him.  To your point, he's not a Chapman/Miller stuff type guy and that's probably less valuable come October, but I think we should get a pretty solid prospect for him.  Not top 100 type, but at least an org's top 10 guy and maybe more if we package him with something else.  I really don't think Shields has nearly the value that Soria does either.

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3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

 

I gotta disagree with your take on Soria.  His velocity is down a little bit, but nothing substantial.  He's posted the second highest K/9 of his career (and since 2009) at 11.25 and the highest swinging strike % of his career at 14.7%.  His BB rate & HR/9 are also below his career average.  He's actually been one of the better relievers in baseball this year and I think there will be plenty of interest in him.  To your point, he's not a Chapman/Miller stuff type guy and that's probably less valuable come October, but I think we should get a pretty solid prospect for him.  Not top 100 type, but at least an org's top 10 guy and maybe more if we package him with something else.  I really don't think Shields has nearly the value that Soria does either.

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Agree here.  Soria will definitely land an organizational's top 10 prospect imo and a flier.  If they do package him with Shields, I can see an org. top 10 and 2 fliers.  

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30 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I have a hard time calling Soria a high leverage reliever, even if he has been closing for the White Sox.  His stuff is largely gone and he gets by on deception for the most part.  Shields is basically the same description.   While I think he could help a team in the 6th and 7th innings, he isn't going to be an 8th or 9th inning guy for a team looking to make the playoffs.  Just thinking back to what the Yankees gave up for David Robertson, Tommy Kahnle and Todd Frazier, I can't put the package of players we are talking about here anywhere NEAR that group.  We got a back end top 100 player and some other pieces for that group.  I can't expect something even close to that for Soria, Shields and Avilan.

Isn't Mejia a Top 25 prospect in all of baseball? Apparently the price for good relievers has gone up.

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1 hour ago, Jose Abreu said:

Take notes Hahn. Let's package some of our guys to get a better prospect. Soria, Cedeno, and Avilan in the same trade even. Obviously wouldn't get someone like Mejia but maybe a top 100?

I doubt Avilan or Cedeno add much quality to the return package.
To do it, you'd have to start moving Fry, Davidson, Leury, Narvaez, or Yolmer..one of those guys.  I'm not sure it makes sense to do so for another A ball prospect...for a near  major league ready pitching, CF, 3B prospect, it very well could.   

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27 minutes ago, Dam8610 said:

Isn't Mejia a Top 25 prospect in all of baseball? Apparently the price for good relievers has gone up.

San Diego gave up 3 years of Hand, plus 5 years of another young reliever.  The price hasn't gone up, more like quality was paid for quality.  The same type of price was paid for Miller and Chapman.  The Sox don't have any relievers in this category.

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1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

San Diego gave up 3 years of Hand, plus 5 years of another young reliever.  The price hasn't gone up, more like quality was paid for quality.  The same type of price was paid for Miller and Chapman.  The Sox don't have any relievers in this category.

If 2.5 years of Hand and 4.5 years of Adam Cimber equals a top 25 prospect, then it may take Jace Fry, but 1.5 years of Soria, 6.5 years of Fry, 0.5 years worth of Shields, and ~$18 million should be worth at least a top 50 prospect.

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2 minutes ago, Dam8610 said:

If 2.5 years of Hand and 4.5 years of Adam Cimber equals a top 25 prospect, then it may take Jace Fry, but 1.5 years of Soria, 6.5 years of Fry, 0.5 years worth of Shields, and ~$18 million should be worth at least a top 50 prospect.

With the amount of money you've thrown in that's probably actually a fair deal, but it's a deal no team currently even remotely close to the playoff chase is going to offer. None of them are that desperate for $18 million and in need of a back end starter and 2 bullpen pitchers. Teams might have a role for those players, but they don't need the money, or vice-versa. 

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8 minutes ago, Dam8610 said:

If 2.5 years of Hand and 4.5 years of Adam Cimber equals a top 25 prospect, then it may take Jace Fry, but 1.5 years of Soria, 6.5 years of Fry, 0.5 years worth of Shields, and ~$18 million should be worth at least a top 50 prospect.

Jace Fry is a guy who could actually move the needle.  My guess is Soria + Fry might be the best deal of all, if we actually wanted to move Fry. That might net us a top 100-ish player.

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1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

Jace Fry is a guy who could actually move the needle.  My guess is Soria + Fry might be the best deal of all, if we actually wanted to move Fry. That might net us a top 100-ish player.

The Sox are still in the ABTR stage of things.

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1 minute ago, Dam8610 said:

The Sox are still in the ABTR stage of things.

I wouldn't mind it for sure.  Jace Fry means nothing to me in terms of the future of the rebuild.  If his inclusion in a deal can push us up to a Top 100 or higher player, put him on the El to ORD.

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17 minutes ago, Dam8610 said:

If 2.5 years of Hand and 4.5 years of Adam Cimber equals a top 25 prospect, then it may take Jace Fry, but 1.5 years of Soria, 6.5 years of Fry, 0.5 years worth of Shields, and ~$18 million should be worth at least a top 50 prospect.

Nitpicking, but its 3.5 years of Hand and either 5.5 or 6.5 years of Cimber depending on when he was called up.

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58 minutes ago, Dam8610 said:

The Sox are still in the ABTR stage of things.

Yes they are but I would still be hesitant to say goodbye to 6 years of Fry. His peripherals and deception have me convinced that he'll be an effective reliever. 

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46 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

Yes they are but I would still be hesitant to say goodbye to 6 years of Fry. His peripherals and deception have me convinced that he'll be an effective reliever. 

He's also had two TJ surgies and hasn't exactly been the model of durability.  I wouldn't be looking to move him, but I would certainly be open to it.

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6 hours ago, Dam8610 said:

Isn't Mejia a Top 25 prospect in all of baseball? Apparently the price for good relievers has gone up.

#14 according to one list I saw today. But IIRC, Mejia has character issues and the Indians were upset with him. So that may have worked out tremendously for the Padres if they don't think it's a concern.

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Good for both teams.meija is a very good prospect but the Indians clearly think he is not able to catch well in the big leagues evidenced by them giving him reps at third and the OF.

 

Meija has a great arm but his framing is supposed to be weak. 10 years ago anyone would have loved him at catcher but the evaluation of catchers has clearly changed due to framing.

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