7/21 Games

[ScootsMcGoots]

5 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

 

Or, maybe, keeping him in AAA is hurting his development and he needs to be facing tougher competition so that he can improve as a player. It can be argued that said developmental time is more important that potentially having him for an extra year, which may not even happen because of the new CBA 

Right on. I hate this game of extra year of control. These guys let you know when they are ready to come up, and when they are ready, they should be called up. Not saying Eloy is ready just yet, I mean he might be, and probably is, but he still I think needs to show it for a few more weeks.

[TomPickle]

2 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

 

Or, maybe, keeping him in AAA is hurting his development and he needs to be facing tougher competition so that he can improve as a player. It can be argued that said developmental time is more important that potentially having him for an extra year, which may not even happen because of the new CBA 

Also, the clock is already ticking on the 'competitive window' with Moncada, Lopez, Giolito and Anderson already at the MLB level.

I'm not going to be mad or disappointed if Eloy and Kopech don't get called up this year, but I also don't quite get where people are coming from when they think there is no point to either getting called up this year.

[Two-Gun Pete]

7 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

 

Or, maybe, keeping him in AAA is hurting his development and he needs to be facing tougher competition so that he can improve as a player. It can be argued that said developmental time is more important that potentially having him for an extra year, which may not even happen because of the new CBA 

Or maybe, the Charlotte bandbox is artificially skewing his numbers, thereby giving us a false idea of his readiness.

The lad won't become Dayan Viciedo, just by finishing up 2018 in AAA.

[ScootsMcGoots]

4 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Or maybe, the Charlotte bandbox is artificially skewing his numbers, thereby giving us a false idea of his readiness.

The lad won't become Dayan Viciedo, just by finishing up 2018 in AAA.

He might tho 😉

[TomPickle]

5 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Or maybe, the Charlotte bandbox is artificially skewing his numbers, thereby giving us a false idea of his readiness.

The lad won't become Dayan Viciedo, just by finishing up 2018 in AAA.

Probably not time to hit that home/road splits panic button after 5 road games.

[Jose Abreu]

9 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Or maybe, the Charlotte bandbox is artificially skewing his numbers, thereby giving us a false idea of his readiness.

 The lad won't become Dayan Viciedo, just by finishing up 2018 in AAA.

If 21 PAs outside of Charlotte is enough for you to think he's not doing that well, then ok.

 

It's not like he struggled to hit at the Barons' home park, which is a major pitcher's park.

[Two-Gun Pete]

Just now, TomPickle said:

Probably not time to hit that home/road splits panic button after 5 road games.

Don't disagree, and no one is hitting a "panic button." But it would be foolish to disregard the difference in difficulty for hitters in AAA parks other than Charlotte in that league.

I don't know the park factor, but simply looking @ the overall #s for Jimenez can be deceiving,  IMO. All the more reason to give him more reps in AAA.

[Two-Gun Pete]

Just now, Jose Abreu said:

If 21 PAs outside of Charlotte is enough for you to think he's not doing that well, then ok.

 

It's not like he struggled to hit at the Barons' home park, which is a major pitcher's park.

Now, that's a bit hyperbolic.

It is well-known that Charlotte plays more like a AAA park in the PCL than an IL park. Disregarding this reality is foolish, is all that Ive posted. No need to extrapolate anything further than that.

[ScootsMcGoots]

6 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Don't disagree, and no one is hitting a "panic button." But it would be foolish to disregard the difference in difficulty for hitters in AAA parks other than Charlotte in that league.

I don't know the park factor, but simply looking @ the overall #s for Jimenez can be deceiving,  IMO. All the more reason to give him more reps in AAA.

I definitely think he should have more reps at AAA but if he is still doing this in a month...I think they need to call him up in September (barring another injury, I don't think they will move Delmonico or Palka for him in 2018. Too bad neither one of those 2 can play center...Engel would be out of here so fast. Only thing keeping him here is his speed

Edited July 22, 2018 by Scoots

[Two-Gun Pete]

According to this, BB&T was the highest ballpark factor in the IL between 2014-2016. (I couldn't find a more recent citation.)

If BB&T were in the PCL, it would be just behind Reno in ballpark factor.

https://www.milb.com/milb/news/toolshed-stats-triple-a-ballpark-factors/c-208823408

 

To me, this makes the home/away splits for Charlotte's prospects very cogent to the discussion of their development/readiness.

Edited July 22, 2018 by Two-Gun Pete

[chitownsportsfan]

eloy is hitting 342 with an OPS over 900 in AAA and we all arguing about petty shit.  FFS I hope they call him up and he dominates.  I'm all about service time but Eloy is a special talent.  If he's ready he's ready.  We could be looking at the next great WS player.  Let the youngster get his feet wet and get that hunger even stronger.  

Ya'all wanna see a kid come up and go Torres style?  Eloy could do just that, this August and September.

[chitownsportsfan]

2 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

According to this, BB&T was the highest ballpark factor in the IL between 2014-2016. (I couldn't find a more recent citation.)

If BB&T were in the PCL, it would be just behind Vegas in ballpark factor.

https://www.milb.com/milb/news/toolshed-stats-triple-a-ballpark-factors/c-208823408

 

To me, this makes the home/away splits for Charlotte's prospects very cogent to the discussion of their development/readiness.

well thank god you're not in charge.  this is not the data point to die on.

Edited July 22, 2018 by chitownsportsfan

[Two-Gun Pete]

1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said:

well thank god you're not in charge.  this is not the data point to die on.

Sometimes you gotta dig a little deeper than the overall #s. Looking @ home/away splits isn't getting too deep into minutiae,  IMO.

[joejoedairy]

5 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

eloy is hitting 342 with an OPS over 900 in AAA and we all arguing about petty shit.  FFS I hope they call him up and he dominates.  I'm all about service time but Eloy is a special talent.  If he's ready he's ready.  We could be looking at the next great WS player.  Let the youngster get his feet wet and get that hunger even stronger.  

Ya'all wanna see a kid come up and go Torres style?  Eloy could do just that, this August and September.

And then re-sign him in 6 years

[Jose Abreu]

11 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Sometimes you gotta dig a little deeper than the overall #s. Looking @ home/away splits isn't getting too deep into minutiae,  IMO.

You're right, but a 21 PA sample just doesn't cut it, especially when AA pitching is harder than AAA pitching so it's not like this is some greater challenge for him. He's proven that he can hit under pretty much any circumstance, hitter's park, pitcher's park, neutral park, etc.

[fathom]

I do think Eloy is better vs RHP than LHP so far this season, but it's not like a Yoan thing where he's a switch hitter and his swing is different. To me, probably means he doesn't pick up changeups as good as he does other breaking pitches.  Given his ability to drive the ball to right center, I'm confident he'll make the necessary adjustments.

[Two-Gun Pete]

21 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

You're right, but a 21 PA sample just doesn't cut it, especially when AA pitching is harder than AAA pitching so it's not like this is some greater challenge for him. He's proven that he can hit under pretty much any circumstance, hitter's park, pitcher's park, neutral park, etc.

Dont disagree with the sample size issue.

However, AAA has more veteran AAAA types, former MLBers trying to make it back after injuries, former prospects, as well as current prospects pitching  than in AA. This provides a hitter with room to grow/learn, given the higher degree of difficulty. There are more guys who "know how to pitch" in AAA than in AA. Because of these factors, I don't believe the old view that AA pitching is better than AAA any more; I believe that AAA pitching is better than AA pitching.

 

There are things for Jimenez to learn in AAA, just as there were things for Moncada to learn before him. And while Jimenez may very well be ready now, I'm content to wait, and be SURE he is.

Edited July 22, 2018 by Two-Gun Pete

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Mad Regal🤴

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

18 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Dont disagree with the sample size issue.

However, AAA has more veteran AAAA types, former MLBers trying to make it back after injuries, former prospects, as well as current prospects pitching  than in AA. This provides a hitter with room to grow/learn, given the higher degree of difficulty. There are more guys who "know how to pitch" in AAA than in AA. Because of these factors, I don't believe the old view that AA pitching is better than AAA any more; I believe that AAA pitching is better than AA pitching.

 

There are things for Jimenez to learn in AAA, just as there were things for Moncada to learn before him. And while Jimenez may very well be ready now, I'm content to wait, and be SURE he is.

You brought up the difference in the OPS in your first post then proceeded to say you don't disagree with the sample size being too small. So why bring up the difference in the OPS in the first place ? Would just be easier to say you jumped the gun and maybe didn't check how small a sample his road games were but you continued to try to dance your away around it by using Moncada as an example because, yea, gotta keep your eyes on the splits. Next time just bring ups the splits when they are actually relevant.

[SoxAce]

1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said:

eloy is hitting 342 with an OPS over 900 in AAA and we all arguing about petty shit.  FFS I hope they call him up and he dominates.

Eloy doesn't even have a K issue in AAA. I mean it's getting ridiculous. Some just don't wanna admit we haven't had one quite like him in some time.

[bmags]

Game 2 in AZL was a 2016 INTL FA show with all of the offense coming from Guerrero (2-3 2 2Bs) and Coronado (1/3, 3B), also Brayant Nova with some hits. Can’t remember his class.

Davis Martin pitched and Hunter Kiel had a very Hunter Kiel like of 2Ks, 4 BBS in an inning of work.

[Two-Gun Pete]

6 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

You brought up the difference in the OPS in your first post then proceeded to say you don't disagree with the sample size being too small. So why bring up the difference in the OPS in the first place ? 

Why can't it be both?

On the one hand, the ballpark factor for HR for Coors Field-Charlotte was a MASSIVE 1.660. (I didnt see a similar ballpark factor at ANY other level of MiLB or MLB, BTW.) In other words, it was far & away easier to hit HR in Charlotte than anywhere else in all of the AAA leagues. (And yes, that includes all the high desert parks in the PCL like Reno.) So, it is beyond a doubt a skewing factor for hitters, especially for power hitters like Jimenez.

Do you disagree with this fact?

 

At the same time, his OPS away from Coors Field-Charlotte is ~350 points lower, but in a much smaller sample size. So, while it is "notable," Id say that the sample size isnt large enough for the difference in OPS to be significant-yet. But, to ignore the ballpark factors would be to put on blinders.

So, let's see how he does, ESPECIALLY on the road for a few more weeks.

 

[Jake]

There is a lot of evidence to suggest the "real" Eloy is much more like the one you've seen in his home games than the one you've seen in his road games.

His lack of strikeouts thus far is another encouraging sign that he's not lucking out due to some massive ballpark effect. Oftentimes you see guys on short-term hot streaks and under the hood is a bunch of strikeouts and sky-high BABIP. Not here, he just looks like an improved version of the same guy we've seen for 12 months.

[Jerksticks]

1 hour ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Why can't it be both?

On the one hand, the ballpark factor for HR for Coors Field-Charlotte was a MASSIVE 1.660. (I didnt see a similar ballpark factor at ANY other level of MiLB or MLB, BTW.) In other words, it was far & away easier to hit HR in Charlotte than anywhere else in all of the AAA leagues. (And yes, that includes all the high desert parks in the PCL like Reno.) So, it is beyond a doubt a skewing factor for hitters, especially for power hitters like Jimenez.

Do you disagree with this fact?

 

At the same time, his OPS away from Coors Field-Charlotte is ~350 points lower, but in a much smaller sample size. So, while it is "notable," Id say that the sample size isnt large enough for the difference in OPS to be significant-yet. But, to ignore the ballpark factors would be to put on blinders.

So, let's see how he does, ESPECIALLY on the road for a few more weeks.

 

Dude, isn’t Birmingham a ridiculously hard park to hit in?  I don’y know how to check that stat but historically it has been.   So there’s your sample size for a field opposite of the Reno Aces in the PCL- how did he hit there?

[SCCWS]

.342 average in AAA is eye-catching. Time to break out the 3 Dog Night Classic   " Eloy's Coming"