7/25 Games

[Heads22]

I agree with what fathom has said in the past that Dylan hasn't been getting the love from the larger prospect circles. Hopefully this season helps to take away from the notion that his most likely ending up point is as a closer. Frankly, he should be rocketing up rankings lists. The eye test certainly matches the results. Also, his 1-10 record last year should help to prove how little minor league win-loss should ever matter.

[Chicago White Sox]

10 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

Yeah, probably.  Although to me, this is what Cease has looked like most of the year.  I'm shocked when anyone hits him.

Oh trust me, I’m not giving him a ton of credit for Cease’s success, but he made some gutsy calls that really paid off.

[Dam8610]

7 minutes ago, Heads22 said:

I agree with what fathom has said in the past that Dylan hasn't been getting the love from the larger prospect circles. Hopefully this season helps to take away from the notion that his most likely ending up point is as a closer. Frankly, he should be rocketing up rankings lists. The eye test certainly matches the results. Also, his 1-10 record last year should help to prove how little minor league win-loss should ever matter.

Didn't BA have him in the 30s on their midseason update?

[Chicago White Sox]

2 minutes ago, Dam8610 said:

Didn't BA have him in the 30s on their midseason update?

Only 70th.

[thxfrthmmrs]

Law has Cease jumped from outside of 100 to 31st in his latest ranking. Just speak volume to how much improvement Cease has made this year. 

Edited July 26, 2018 by thxfrthmmrs

[Dam8610]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Only 70th.

Someone did a midseason update recently and had him in the 30s.

[DirtySox]

Collins HR. #12.

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

15 minutes ago, Heads22 said:

I agree with what fathom has said in the past that Dylan hasn't been getting the love from the larger prospect circles. Hopefully this season helps to take away from the notion that his most likely ending up point is as a closer. Frankly, he should be rocketing up rankings lists. The eye test certainly matches the results. Also, his 1-10 record last year should help to prove how little minor league win-loss should ever matter.

I think we'll see him jump up now that he is in Double-A and not only having success, but dominate starts.

[Chicago White Sox]

10 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

I think we'll see him jump up now that he is in Double-A and not only having success, but dominate starts.

Yeah, usually success at AA results in big jumps in the prospect rankings.

[turnin' two]

31 minutes ago, Dam8610 said:

So does the Red Sox trade with the way Basabe has been playing lately.

I kind of disagree with this as Sale has to be the favorite to win the Cy Young at this point.  

[thxfrthmmrs]

Something that's not been discussed a lot is Cease's improved durability this year. Last year he had trouble getting out of 5 innings but this year he's consistently getting into 6 and 7th innings and without facing a lot of issues. Also he has eclipsed his career high of 93 IP in a season tonight and looks like he still going strong.

[Dam8610]

4 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

I kind of disagree with this as Sale has to be the favorite to win the Cy Young at this point.  

How many times have we said this in July? How many Cy Young Awards does Sale have? This may seem harsh, but until I see him do it in September and October, I'm not believing it. Further, Moncada still has the potential to be a future MVP candidate, Kopech has the potential to be a future Cy Young award candidate, and Basabe is starting to flash the potential of an above average everyday ML starter. If the Sox get all that for Sale, it's a lopsided deal in their favor despite Sale being very good.

[thxfrthmmrs]

Just now, Dam8610 said:

How many times have we said this in July? How many Cy Young Awards does Sale have? This may seem harsh, but until I see him do it in September and October, I'm not believing it. Further, Moncada still has the potential to be a future MVP candidate, Kopech has the potential to be a future Cy Young award candidate, and Basabe is starting to flash the potential of an above average everyday ML starter. If the Sox get all that for Sale, it's a lopsided deal in their favor despite Sale being very good.

Sale is not just very good, he's elite... You basically are saying if all 3 hits their absolute ceiling the trade is lopsided in favor of the Sox. I mean yea sure, but that's looong shot.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

30 minutes ago, Dam8610 said:

Someone did a midseason update recently and had him in the 30s.

Doesn’t want to make the same mistake he did with Sale (referring to KLaw) 😉

Edited July 26, 2018 by JUSTgottaBELIEVE

[Dam8610]

1 minute ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

Sale is not just very good, he's elite... You basically are saying if all 3 hits their absolute ceiling the trade is lopsided in favor of the Sox. I mean yea sure, but that's looong shot.

All I said was there was a chance of the deal being lopsided in the favor of the White Sox. Also, all 3 players are in AA or higher now and only Moncada is really struggling (though still in the midst of what looks to be a 3 WAR season at 23).

[Chicago White Sox]

14 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

Sale is not just very good, he's elite... You basically are saying if all 3 hits their absolute ceiling the trade is lopsided in favor of the Sox. I mean yea sure, but that's looong shot.

The reality is that Sale could provide the Red Sox 24 WAR for about $40M plus should get a comp pick if/when he leaves.  That’s a good $150M in surplus value.

Having said that, if Moncada & Kopech are both 4 WAR players over the course of their period of control, we’re talking about nearly 50 WAR in return.  And no one should be surprised if one of them becomes an absolute stud and blows that projection out of the water.  That doesn’t even include Basabe, who has a chance to be a pretty good player himself.  I would say as things stands right now, we’ll likely end up with significantly more value than the Red Sox.  That doesn’t mean the trade was lopsided necessarily, but hopefully we can consider it a sure fire win from our perspective.

[DirtySox]

Bush 2-3 with a 2B. Hitting .393.

[Chicago White Sox]

Cease claims Collins’ defense has improved significantly since Spring Training.  While I wouldn’t expect him to say anything negative, it does seem like there is some truth to his statements.  That being said, I’m sure Collins still has a long way to go.

[Sox Fan In Husker Land]

19 minutes ago, Dam8610 said:

All I said was there was a chance of the deal being lopsided in the favor of the White Sox. Also, all 3 players are in AA or higher now and only Moncada is really struggling (though still in the midst of what looks to be a 3 WAR season at 23).

The deal has a chance to be very special to both of the teams involved. Since joining the Red Sox, Sale has the most fWAR of any pitcher in baseball at 12.9 as of today. The next closest is Scherzer at 10.5. The Red Sox ended up getting what has been the best pitcher in baseball the last 1.5 years on a 3 year $38 million contract. They knew what they were giving up in Moncada, Kopech, and Basabe to get him. They also have the best record in baseball now.

[reiks12]

ah great, an epeen contest in a minors thread over Sale instead of talking about this amazing dominating performance by Cease 

[Dam8610]

1 minute ago, Sox Fan In Husker Land said:

The deal has a chance to be very special to both of the teams involved. Since joining the Red Sox, Sale has the most fWAR of any pitcher in baseball at 12.9 as of today. The next closest is Scherzer at 10.5. The Red Sox ended up getting what has been the best pitcher in baseball the last 1.5 years on a 3 year $38 million contract. They knew what they were giving up in Moncada, Kopech, and Basabe to get him. They also have the best record in baseball now.

I completely understand why the Red Sox did what they did and they're certainly getting good value out of Sale, value for which the White Sox had no use. But the White Sox could still get more value, and more appropriately timed value, out of Moncada, Kopech, and Basabe than they ever would have gotten out of Sale.

[ron883]

Tbh the sale trade looks like it could be a glowing success for both teams. I hope Sale wins a WS with the bosox and a combination of  kopech/moncada/basabe win a WS with the white sox. 

[Sticky Stuff]

It’s a small sample size, but Ian Dawkins is 13 for 26 in Kanny and he hit well in Great Falls. Is this someone to keep an eye on, or just a guy?

[Dam8610]

10 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

ah great, an epeen contest in a minors thread over Sale instead of talking about this amazing dominating performance by Cease 

Cease had a great start, flirted with a perfect game until the wheels fell off in the 7th. Still, 101 pitches, 12 K, 7 IP, and only 2 baserunners is very impressive. Also set a new career high for IP tonight. He looks ready for AAA to me.

[Jose Abreu]

3 hours ago, bmags said:

What’s the rationale for limiting the question to just these two?

Prior to the season, many were low on Cease and high on Dunning. Now, Cease has been excellent and Dunning, while rock solid, is out for the foreseeable future and may need TJS. As daggins said below, they're both "second pieces" or third arguably with Dunning, but I was interested to see what people thought of the two.

 

2 hours ago, soxfan49 said:

Yes, but I could also see Cease being a lights out closer

A lot of people like to throw around "worst case scenario, he's a lights out closer!" for starting pitching prospects... but yeah, with Cease, I actually agree. I don't see him being any worse than an average-ish starter or good closer. 

 

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

No, need one of them to be a lot more than solid.  Cease might have a chance to be a legit ace at this point and I see #3 starter potential in Dunning.  Really need one of them to live up to their potential.

I think they both will, if healthy.

 

2 hours ago, daggins said:

Guessing, but they were considered secondary players in the major trades of the rebuild?

Yeah, this, and also since their stock has gone in opposite directions lately. Although Dunning's is due to health rather than performance

 

2 hours ago, GreenSox said:

Yes

As much as I like both I'll have to agree. 

 

2 hours ago, Dam8610 said:

I suppose, but I think I'm higher on Dunning than most. I see #2 potential in him mostly because of how solid and consistent he's been since coming over to the White Sox (prior to the injury of course). Cease obviously has ace potential and many people keep saying he may need to go to the pen, but I don't see a reason for it. He's done nothing but show he can start this year.

So when does he get the call to AAA? Does he really have anything left to prove at AA?

I think you let Cease finish the year in AA unless he continues this ridiculous pace, but I expect minor regression. Then either start him in AAA next year or I guess give him a couple AAA starts this year to get his feet wet like we did with Kopech last year.