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LittleHurt05

Official 2018-19 NFL Thread

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3 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

Robinson isn’t an elite 1, but he’s a good to solid number one and with the bears running an attack that spreads the ball around that should work. They need their other wideouts to be more dynamic. Gabriel had like three good games but otherwise was pedestrian. They’ll need Miller to take a step forward and hopefully Wims can too. Means Cohen and Gabriel can be the gadget speed guys. 

 

Burton is solid and who knows with Shaheen. He’s big and can block and I’ll say he can catch. Not sure if he can get open enough but hopefully. 

This. Robinson isn’t a true number 1 for me, maybe border line 1/2. I am not sure Miller is either but I will give him time. If we have the luxury of adding a big play receiver we should go for it and replace Gabriel (but I think he still have a year of guarantee left).

Think of it this way, how many more passes could Mitch have made or how many times he wouldn’t have to scramble if Gabriel had a bigger catch radius, where Mitch could throw “mistake passes” and know that Gabriel would still go get it. Us ranking in the bottom 3rd in pass offense is also a product of the personnel we have.

i don’t know our cap situation right now, but to me that’s one of our biggest needs.

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1 minute ago, nitetrain8601 said:

So we are throwing out Yards thrown, TDS thrown, passer rating and teams each plays with?

 

Okay, gotcha

None of those measure player quality well.  They're only pieces of the puzzle.  QBR isn't great either but it takes more valuable information into consideration.

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4 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

This. Robinson isn’t a true number 1 for me, maybe border line 1/2. I am not sure Miller is either but I will give him time. If we have the luxury of adding a big play receiver we should go for it and replace Gabriel (but I think he still have a year of guarantee left).

Think of it this way, how many more passes could Mitch have made or how many times he wouldn’t have to scramble if Gabriel had a bigger catch radius, where Mitch could throw “mistake passes” and know that Gabriel would still go get it. Us ranking in the bottom 3rd in pass offense is also a product of the personnel we have.

i don’t know our cap situation right now, but to me that’s one of our biggest needs.

If Robinson isn't a #1, your criteria for a #1 is a receiver who is going to Canton at the end of their career. 

You can win without HOF at every position. Only notable exception is QB. 

Edited by Jack Parkman
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2 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

This. Robinson isn’t a true number 1 for me, maybe border line 1/2. I am not sure Miller is either but I will give him time. If we have the luxury of adding a big play receiver we should go for it and replace Gabriel (but I think he still have a year of guarantee left).

Think of it this way, how many more passes could Mitch have made or how many times he wouldn’t have to scramble if Gabriel had a bigger catch radius, where Mitch could throw “mistake passes” and know that Gabriel would still go get it. Us ranking in the bottom 3rd in pass offense is also a product of the personnel we have.

i don’t know our cap situation right now, but to me that’s one of our biggest needs.

Gabriel's catch radius was definitely a thing this year. Especially early on before Trubisky figured out his stride, if the throw wasn't perfect Gabriel wasn't completing it.

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1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

If Robinson isn't a #1, your criteria for a #1 is a receiver who is going to Canton at the end of their career. 

It also implies that he believes teams need a number one receiver to win the Super Bowl.  We know that's not true (uh, patriots)

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2 minutes ago, AustinIllini said:

None of those measure player quality well.  They're only pieces of the puzzle.  QBR isn't great either but it takes more valuable information into consideration.

I'm not saying just one or the other. I'm using all of them in conjunction with each other. Someone already pointed out the flaw with QBR. Or do you really think Mitch is better than Tom Brady?

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1 minute ago, AustinIllini said:

It also implies that he believes teams need a number one receiver to win the Super Bowl.  We know that's not true (uh, patriots)

The only time Brady had anyone close to a #1 or even a #2 was Randy Moss. He won 5 Super Bowls, and lost the one in which he had Moss. 

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1 minute ago, Tony said:

Not every team needs a True No. 1. I agree Allen Robinson isn’t a true No. 1

The Rams don’t have a No. 1. The Eagles don’t have a No. 1.

Hopkins-Julio-AB-OBJ-DaVante, those are true No. 1 guys. 

Those are also probable future HOF guys, should they stay healthy. 

You don't have to be top 5 at your position to be a #1. 

This is the same argument you get into in hockey with regard to 1C and 1D. 

In hockey, they argue if you're not winning Hart/Norris/Richard you're not a #1 anything, and that is way too specific. Those guys are HOFers. You don't have to be a HOF to be a #1 anything. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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1 minute ago, nitetrain8601 said:

I'm not saying just one or the other. I'm using all of them in conjunction with each other. Someone already pointed out the flaw with QBR. Or do you really think Mitch is better than Tom Brady?

Brady didn't have a great statistical season this year. Dude is 40-something, he was good, but this wasn't vintage Brady.

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1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

If Robinson isn't a #1, your criteria for a #1 is a receiver who is going to Canton at the end of their career. 

Are you saying that any receivers better than Robinson is a HOF? I mean first it was Rodgers comparison, now this? Seems like you have went extreme the other way.

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2 minutes ago, nitetrain8601 said:

I'm not saying just one or the other. I'm using all of them in conjunction with each other. Someone already pointed out the flaw with QBR. Or do you really think Mitch is better than Tom Brady?

I'm using a superior, situational stat to tell you you're wrong. 

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5 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

Are you saying that any receivers better than Robinson is a HOF? I mean first it was Rodgers comparison, now this? Seems like you have went extreme the other way.

No, not at all. 

I'm saying that guys like Brown, OBJ, Julio, Hopkins, Those guys are incredibly special and likely HOFers. Those are the 4 best receivers in the NFL. It is like saying if you're not top 5 at your position you aren't starter material. Robinson, DaVante Adams, and players of that ilk are a notch below. I wouldn't put Adams with the other 4 because you don't know how much is Rodgers and how much is him. The HOF WR will put up numbers no matter who their QB is, talk to Larry Fitzgerald about that. The others are more QB dependent but if they have a good QB to throw them the ball they are almost as good. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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4 minutes ago, Tony said:

Not every team needs a True No. 1. I agree Allen Robinson isn’t a true No. 1

The Rams don’t have a No. 1. The Eagles don’t have a No. 1.

Hopkins-Julio-AB-OBJ-DaVante, those are true No. 1 guys. 

Let me rephrase this. Bears do not have a true vertical big play threat and which is why we couldn’t move the ball against Eagles in the first half. Robinson makes his money on route running, he has some ability as a deep threat but isn’t explosive enough to be one consistently, especially post injury, also at the same time Bears did not call a lot of deep plays for him this year, Eagles know it and it is why their defensive game plan worked earlier in the game.

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Just now, thxfrthmmrs said:

Let me rephrase this. Bears do not have a true vertical big play threat and which is why we couldn’t move the ball against Eagles in the first half. Robinson makes his money on route running, he has some ability as a deep threat but isn’t explosive enough to be one consistently, especially post injury, also at the same time Bears did not call a lot of deep plays for him this year, Eagles know it and it is why their defensive game plan worked earlier in the game.

This is a good point.  Bears have draft picks and the luxury to maybe address this.  There's nothing they clearly need to draft this year for reasons other than to improve depth.

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1 minute ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

Let me rephrase this. Bears do not have a true vertical big play threat and which is why we couldn’t move the ball against Eagles in the first half. Robinson makes his money on route running, he has some ability as a deep threat but isn’t explosive enough to be one consistently, especially post injury, also at the same time Bears did not call a lot of deep plays for him this year, Eagles know it and it is why their defensive game plan worked earlier in the game.

Robinson and Alshon are pretty much the same player. Robinson is just younger. 

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2 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

Let me rephrase this. Bears do not have a true vertical big play threat and which is why we couldn’t move the ball against Eagles in the first half. Robinson makes his money on route running, he has some ability as a deep threat but isn’t explosive enough to be one consistently, especially post injury, also at the same time Bears did not call a lot of deep plays for him this year, Eagles know it and it is why their defensive game plan worked earlier in the game.

That's a fair take. I think Robinson is a solid option though. Hopefully Miller takes that next stop next season, the learning curve for WRs is steep.

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2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

No, not at all. 

I'm saying that guys like Brown, OBJ, Julio, Hopkins, Those guys are incredibly special and likely HOFers. Those are the 4 best receivers in the NFL. It is like saying if you're not top 5 at your position you aren't starter material. Robinson, DaVante Adams, and players of that ilk are a notch below. I wouldn't put Adams with the other 3 because you don't know how much is Rodgers and how much is him. 

Bears need a big play threat to complement Robinson, or vice versa. And if you think Robinson is in the same breath as Adams and is right after the top 4 you mentioned then you haven’t been paying attention.

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1 minute ago, Soxbadger said:

It obviously ended poorly due to injury, but Bears could have taken a shot with adding Dez this year.

I see what you're saying, but Dez Bryant is a worse Robinson.  He doesn't really add any dimensions to our offense.  And I'm a  Cowboys guy generally.

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2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Robinson and Alshon are pretty much the same player. Robinson is just younger. 

No. They’re different type of receivers with different skill sets. Read the scouting on Robinson if you have to.

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1 hour ago, AustinIllini said:

It's pretty basic physics.  Any small tip at the point of contact causes a large affect towards the end of the ball's trajectory.  The ball hit the upright.  I'm not saying it would have been perfect but it would likely have been a good field goal.

Effect.

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1 minute ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

Bears need a big play threat to complement Robinson, or vice versa. And if you think Robinson is in the same breath as Adams and is right after the top 4 you mentioned then you haven’t been paying attention.

I don't know what you've been watching, but Robinson has been making big plays deep since mid season. He doesn't have elite speed, but he absolutely is a deep threat. The issue is that Miller is a rookie and Gabriel is a smurf. 

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Just now, AustinIllini said:

I see what you're saying, but Dez Bryant is a worse Robinson.  He doesn't really add any dimensions to our offense.  And I'm a  Cowboys guy generally.

A  big physical wr would have spaced the offense better. Plus he has a much bigger catch radius than Gabriel/Miller. It would have made Trubisky's life easier.

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