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Jack Parkman

Offseason trade idea: Sox-Reds

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25 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

True, but I would think a Rutherford for India swap may be a little easier to pull off.  These trades don't happen often, and the Hahn even noted as such in the Garfien podcast, but the Sox do have a glut of OF and it makes a ton of sense to try to flip one for a 3B.  Easier said than done though, no doubt. 

I hate the concept of moving minor leaguers for minor leaguers because you have too many at one position. You've got multiple levels, you've got people hurt, you've got the DH and the ability to try people at other positions to build flexibility for them. I might actively right now avoid trading for an A-ball or AA outfielder, I'll grant that, but trading minor leaguers for minor leaguers just because of positions leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

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18 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I spent last year saying that we were going to win the world series in 2020. I can't say that any more.

The rebuild has already been pushed back a season. Rodon can't be traded now...but this offseason we might have a shot at getting the right kind of return, and if he keeps this up, by next trade deadline he should be able to.

At what point does the rebuild become the snake eating its own tail? The tearing down part of the rebuild is over. Next year will be another developmental year for all the youngsters but I suspect Hahn will add some FA as well. 

The Sox control Rodon for 2019, 2020, and 2021. This team should be able to compete in 2020 and 2021. 

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23 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Perhaps a package of ReyLo and Walker/Call/Cordell would get it done? I like ReyLo but I'd be willing to part with him if they believe India is a long term fit at 3B. Seems India should be a fast riser too with a possible MLB debut in 2020 like Madrigal.

If the Sox are willing to do this, they made a mistake by not just drafting him.

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9 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

If the Sox are willing to do this, they made a mistake by not just drafting him.

Why is that? Can’t they be high on both Madrigal and India? 

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1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

I hate the concept of moving minor leaguers for minor leaguers because you have too many at one position. You've got multiple levels, you've got people hurt, you've got the DH and the ability to try people at other positions to build flexibility for them. I might actively right now avoid trading for an A-ball or AA outfielder, I'll grant that, but trading minor leaguers for minor leaguers just because of positions leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

7 of the Sox top 15 prospects are OF.  They also have several fringe OF in the bigs and AAA (Engel, Delmonico, Tilson, Cordell, Palka).  I see absolutely no reason why trading from an area of organizational strength (OF prospect depth) for an area of weakness is a bad idea.  

You can hate it all you want, along with all the other things you hate.  Hahn specifically mentioned these types of deals less than a week ago.  It merits discussion.  

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Welker definitely seems like a guy to target. Rockies don't have much depth in the minors at OF and have two 30-somethings starting in the MLB OF  that are likely to be free agents after this season.

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2 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

7 of the Sox top 15 prospects are OF.  They also have several fringe OF in the bigs and AAA (Engel, Delmonico, Tilson, Cordell, Palka).  I see absolutely no reason why trading from an area of organizational strength (OF prospect depth) for an area of weakness is a bad idea.  

You can hate it all you want, along with all the other things you hate.  Hahn specifically mentioned these types of deals less than a week ago.  It merits discussion.  

I do not object to prospect for prospect deals, but they should be much more change of scenery type deals - Carson Fulmer comes to mind as an ideal candidate. 

As of right now if any of the OFs you just named are starting OFs for the White Sox in 2020 that means they developed hugely. You really want to tell me that you're going to trade away Rutherford because Engel, Tilson, and Cordell give you confidence that CF is covered?

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1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

I do not object to prospect for prospect deals, but they should be much more change of scenery type deals - Carson Fulmer comes to mind as an ideal candidate. 

As of right now if any of the OFs you just named are starting OFs for the White Sox in 2020 that means they developed hugely. You really want to tell me that you're going to trade away Rutherford because Engel, Tilson, and Cordell give you confidence that CF is covered?

Lol, I didn't say that at all. I said 7 of the top 15 Sox prospects are OF, AND the Sox have a ton of fringe OF guys.  

I would be comfortable trading Rutherford for a similarly regarded prospect at a position of need (3B), because I feel between Eloy, Robert, Basabe, Adolfo, Gonzalez, Walker and a potential FA add, our future outfield will be fine without Rutherford.  Depending on the return, Rutherford may be better use to the organization by flipping him for a guy like Hayes, India, Mountcastle or Welker.  

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7 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I do not object to prospect for prospect deals, but they should be much more change of scenery type deals - Carson Fulmer comes to mind as an ideal candidate. 

As of right now if any of the OFs you just named are starting OFs for the White Sox in 2020 that means they developed hugely. You really want to tell me that you're going to trade away Rutherford because Engel, Tilson, and Cordell give you confidence that CF is covered?

Is Luis Robert dead in this scenario?

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There is an interesting article on ESPN.com about a prospect for prospect trade, and how well it worked out for the Rays trading Delmon Young. Still paying dividends. For the Twins, not so much. But it did state one reason they traded him was the amount of young OF in the Tampa system.

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1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

Is Luis Robert dead in this scenario?

You have 100% confidence he will be up in 2021 and will be a dominant center fielder rapidly? His injury issues are a thing of the past and no more of a worry? 

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Just now, Balta1701 said:

You have 100% confidence he will be up in 2021 and will be a dominant center fielder rapidly? His injury issues are a thing of the past and no more of a worry? 

But you are 100% confident that Rutherford will be a starting CF in 2021?

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Just now, southsider2k5 said:

But you are 100% confident that Rutherford will be a starting CF in 2021?

No, so let's keep both in the system like I said above.

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2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

You have 100% confidence he will be up in 2021 and will be a dominant center fielder rapidly? His injury issues are a thing of the past and no more of a worry? 

What about Basabe, Gonzalez, or Walker

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1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

No, so let's keep both in the system like I said above.

So who are you 100% confident that can play 3B for us in 2021?

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Just now, yesterday333 said:

What about Basabe, Gonzalez, or Walker

Exactly.  The Sox have a ton of depth in the OF.  I like Rutherford, and I don't want to get rid of him.  But if we can turn him into a legit 3B prospect, I don't see why you wouldn't do it.  

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I know this isn't what the thread is about but I would like to trade Avi for a 3b prospect like Colton Welker with the Rockies. Then we can keep our prospects and add more.

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Just now, yesterday333 said:

I know this isn't what the thread is about but I would like to trade Avi for a 3b prospect like Colton Welker with the Rockies. Then we can keep our prospects and add more.

Me thinks Rockies would be more interested in our OF prospects than 1 year of Avi if the return Welker.  

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Just now, ChiSox59 said:

Me thinks Rockies would be more interested in our OF prospects than 1 year of Avi if the return Welker.  

Maybe, but all those OFs are still a few years from playing. If the Rockies want to compete now I think theyd be more interested in Avi.

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6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

So who are you 100% confident that can play 3B for us in 2021?

If all of these outfield prospects continue to develop as they move up and their are no setbacks, the guys we have will be the highest ranked and worth most in a trade in 2 years or so, when they have reached AAA and established multiple years of health and success. If at that time we still have no 3b and some of them are blocked, then they are the ammunition to make a move for one.

The only reasons why I'd move any of these guys are: 1. I think they're going to flop, 2. We have more outfielders than spots available in the minors, or 3. We have identified a 3b who is seriously undervalued and that's who we're trading for. No one has alleged either of those yet. 

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15 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If all of these outfield prospects continue to develop as they move up and their are no setbacks, the guys we have will be the highest ranked and worth most in a trade in 2 years or so, when they have reached AAA and established multiple years of health and success. If at that time we still have no 3b and some of them are blocked, then they are the ammunition to make a move for one.

The only reasons why I'd move any of these guys are: 1. I think they're going to flop, 2. We have more outfielders than spots available in the minors, or 3. We have identified a 3b who is seriously undervalued and that's who we're trading for. No one has alleged either of those yet. 

That is a pretty narrow window of ideal for my taste.  I think a move like this diversifies our portfolio of prospects better, it balances out our system better, including more playing time for the OFs we have that are 5 deep in a couple of teams, and it puts us with a better chance of success the future by covering more potential positions in the future, versus less by hoarding.  I mean the 3B depth right now is basically saying we are going to HAVE to put 9 figures into a 3B to get a decent one.  If you can trade an OF and find a 3B of the future, that dynamic changes by a measurable amount and the odds of that happening go down by some amount.

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26 minutes ago, yesterday333 said:

Maybe, but all those OFs are still a few years from playing. If the Rockies want to compete now I think theyd be more interested in Avi.

They *may* be interested in Avi.  But you sure as shit aren't getting Welker for 1 year of avi.  

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4 hours ago, footlongcomiskeydog said:

At what point does the rebuild become the snake eating its own tail? The tearing down part of the rebuild is over. Next year will be another developmental year for all the youngsters but I suspect Hahn will add some FA as well. 

The Sox control Rodon for 2019, 2020, and 2021. This team should be able to compete in 2020 and 2021. 

The only youngsters that will be in The MLB are Jimenez and Kopech. Most of the prospects will be developing in 2020. The true competitive team won't be here until 2021.

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