ChiSox1917 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Gio's turnaround this year has been arguably the highlight of the year for me. Considering the uptick in velocity and different release point over the last month compared to earlier in the year, this to me signifies that this isn't a fluke and is likely to continue into next year. Him, Kopech, and Rodon developing this year has been a joy to watch. If these three keep it up, the WSox are going to surprise a lot of teams next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 17 hours ago, Jack Parkman said: How is it outdated? Please tell me what they did wrong and why the evidence states otherwise? They make a pretty compelling argument in that article. Because that data is from 2009-2012. Current articles with data from 2013-2017 show that this is no longer the case and that the peak for current players is 27-28, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Does Coop get any credit? Or does he only get blame? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Does Coop get any credit? Or does he only get blame? Depends on your agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Does Coop get any credit? Or does he only get blame? I’ll give him credit for Giolito. I still think he’s handled Lopez horribly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Giolito was outstanding against a very good lineup last night. He is a little wild but still limited walks. Had their hitters off-balance all night. Kid deserved a win but that is minor in the big picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Giolito’s last six starts: 37.1 IP, 9.64 K/9, 2.89 BB/9, 0.96 HR/9, .55.2% GB rate, 3.86 ERA, 3.61 FIP, 3.46 xFIP 55.2% FB (93.4v), 10.0% SL, 11.9% CB, 22.9% CH Giolito’s first 15 starts: 78.2 IP, 5.72 K/9, 5.38 BB/9, 1.49 HR/9, 39.1% GB rate, 6.75 ERA, 6.17 FIP, 6.33 xFIP 60.7% FB (91.9v), 17.0% SL, 9.9% CB, 12.5% CU Improved velocity on his fastball (his four seamer is up +2 MPH vs. April). Better command of all his pitches and pitching much more in the zone with his fastball. Getting a lot more grounders by leveraging his two seamer a ton more. Getting a ton more whiffs by better commanding his curveball & using his changeup significantly more. Lucas is a completely different pitcher than the one we saw earlier this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 I don't know that any loss is good, but last night's loss really takes a backseat to Giolito's performance. His 2-seam looked great, the changeup was working, and he looked very confident out there. He deserved the win, but it's unlikely that the current bullpen will look anything like future bullpens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 This is one of the parts of a rebuild I hate. I know our bullpen sucks on purpose, but it is tough to watch our starters not get rewarded for pitching their asses of against good teams. We need all the positive mojo we can get for these guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiks12 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 1 hour ago, SonofaRoache said: This is one of the parts of a rebuild I hate. I know our bullpen sucks on purpose, but it is tough to watch our starters not get rewarded for pitching their asses of against good teams. We need all the positive mojo we can get for these guys. They are getting rewarded, these are 25 and under year olds gaining confidence. That is big, and im sure Gio is thrilled about last night win or lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 1 hour ago, SonofaRoache said: This is one of the parts of a rebuild I hate. I know our bullpen sucks on purpose, but it is tough to watch our starters not get rewarded for pitching their asses of against good teams. We need all the positive mojo we can get for these guys. One of the main reasons I did not want to trade Avilan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 32 minutes ago, reiks12 said: They are getting rewarded, these are 25 and under year olds gaining confidence. That is big, and im sure Gio is thrilled about last night win or lose. They are human and stats matter most. Wins for a pitcher are what they seek most, even if they aren't as important as they used to be. We also don't want over pitching to compensate for a bad bullpen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiks12 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 5 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said: They are human and stats matter most. Wins for a pitcher are what they seek most, even if they aren't as important as they used to be. We also don't want over pitching to compensate for a bad bullpen. Considering 2 of them have been predicted to be middle relievers i would say proving you can pitch 6 or 7 with good stats and solidifying yourself into the future rotation is better than pitcher wins that become less and less important every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 I think Coop and maybe Shields have to get a ton of credit if this is the Giolito that we will see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 10 minutes ago, reiks12 said: Considering 2 of them have been predicted to be middle relievers i would say proving you can pitch 6 or 7 with good stats and solidifying yourself into the future rotation is better than pitcher wins that become less and less important every year. And yet these are competitive people that want to win games, and getting a W is still important to them. Just because a win doesn't have much value in evaluating the talent of a pitcher does not mean it doesn't have value in the psychology of playing the game for players. It clearly does, and maybe it provides a little extra focus late in games knowing that they can get the win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 32 minutes ago, bmags said: One of the main reasons I did not want to trade Avilan. I think he understands what's going on . He knows he has to concentrate on himself getting better and not what happens after he leaves the game. He's know everything going on is geared towards the future. His immediate gratification comes from a job well done . His future gratification will come when he does the same good job and the Sox ( not necessarily him) win meaningful games. Team results should come first. Personal reward come when you do your job to the best of your abilities that help the team win when winning means something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 32 minutes ago, reiks12 said: Considering 2 of them have been predicted to be middle relievers i would say proving you can pitch 6 or 7 with good stats and solidifying yourself into the future rotation is better than pitcher wins that become less and less important every year. It's not a one or the other thing. They can prove they belong AND want wins. I think fans in general need to understand athletes are people. If I was a pitcher I'd be lying through my teeth if I said wins weren't significant for me. Hell, when you go to an mlb page to look at stats wins are usually first followed by ERA. When you look to see who your team is playing the pitching match up pops up with their wins/losses record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 4 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: I’ll give him credit for Giolito. I still think he’s handled Lopez horribly. Why? What specific things has Coop done wrong with Lopez? I’m not attacking you at all I’m just not aware of the very specific things Coop has done wrong with Lopez. Can you list them so that I can have an easier time agreeing with your point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 36 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said: It's not a one or the other thing. They can prove they belong AND want wins. I think fans in general need to understand athletes are people. If I was a pitcher I'd be lying through my teeth if I said wins weren't significant for me. Hell, when you go to an mlb page to look at stats wins are usually first followed by ERA. When you look to see who your team is playing the pitching match up pops up with their wins/losses record. Good there are no incentives in MLB.............................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 (edited) 57 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said: It's not a one or the other thing. They can prove they belong AND want wins. I think fans in general need to understand athletes are people. If I was a pitcher I'd be lying through my teeth if I said wins weren't significant for me. Hell, when you go to an mlb page to look at stats wins are usually first followed by ERA. When you look to see who your team is playing the pitching match up pops up with their wins/losses record. Of course they want wins. Who wouldn't ? But they also know as human beings that they play a team game . If they suck and it hurts the team they take it much harder than they do if they do well and the team wins but they don't. If everyone does their job the main thing is the W goes in the standings. If you were a pitcher you might know that the team is more important than you and that the season is a grind and in order to succeed you can't get too high or too low and you just might have to let go of any goal that does not contribute to team goals . Selfishness has no place on winning teams. Edited August 31, 2018 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 3 hours ago, SonofaRoache said: This is one of the parts of a rebuild I hate. I know our bullpen sucks on purpose, but it is tough to watch our starters not get rewarded for pitching their asses of against good teams. We need all the positive mojo we can get for these guys. There is nothing more frustrating to see an otherwise well played game go to hell on the back of a bad bullpen. The hope I have, is that the Sox haven't neglected this part of the team in the rebuild. With guys like Burdi (not rebuild focus but still), Hamilton, Burr, Johnson, Frare all being drafted and traded for just for the bullpen makes me hopeful that the bullpen will go from a weakness to a strength pretty quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Of course they want wins. Who wouldn't ? But they also know as human beings that they play a team game . If they suck and it hurts the team they take it much harder than they do if they do well and the team wins but they don't. If everyone does their job the main thing is the W goes in the standings. If you were a pitcher you might know that the team is more important than you and that the season is a grind and in order to succeed you can't get too high or too low and you just might have to let go of any goal that does not contribute to team goals . Selfishness has no place on winning teams. I'll start by saying your post is just not realistic. No one is saying not to put the team first, but how does that fit into what happened yesterday? He punched a great game and it would have been nice not to blow a four run lead again. Wanting the win yesterday has nothing to do with a pitcher being selfish or not understanding the focus of a rebuild. It means they are human and want success when they can get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 17 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said: I'll start by saying your post is just not realistic. No one is saying not to put the team first, but how does that fit into what happened yesterday? He punched a great game and it would have been nice not to blow a four run lead again. Wanting the win yesterday has nothing to do with a pitcher being selfish or not understanding the focus of a rebuild. It means they are human and want success when they can get it. What's not realistic ? He did have success. Success is is not having a W on the back of your baseball card,it's in improving from a terrible start. I think he doesnt give a rats ass about yesterdays game except that he has turned around a miserable start and starting to live up to his potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Jerksticks said: Why? What specific things has Coop done wrong with Lopez? I’m not attacking you at all I’m just not aware of the very specific things Coop has done wrong with Lopez. Can you list them so that I can have an easier time agreeing with your point? Lopez has basically been a two pitch pitcher most of the year. He's gone long stretches without using change-up at all. He's also pretty much abandoned his curveball this year, which was his best breaking ball coming up in the minors and when he first hit the show with the Nationals. Why in a rebuilding season wouldn't we have Lopez focusing on his secondary offerings regardless of the results? To me that a failure that falls on Cooper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 48 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Lopez has basically been a two pitch pitcher most of the year. He's gone long stretches without using change-up at all. He's also pretty much abandoned his curveball this year, which was his best breaking ball coming up in the minors and when he first hit the show with the Nationals. Why in a rebuilding season wouldn't we have Lopez focusing on his secondary offerings regardless of the results? To me that a failure that falls on Cooper. Interesting take. I wonder if most agree. It’s interesting to blame somebody specific for it. I always picture a big team of people that works on maximizing and growing our pitchers, including the pitcher. Maybe they are really working on some specific stuff? Maybe it’s more on Lopez? Just seems like there are so many variables to just call things failures and blame people. I mean the Sox invested a lot of time and currency into Lopez...you don’t think everybody is working super hard to make him realize his potential? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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