Jack Parkman Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 (edited) OK, so the Sox, next season and in 2020, will have the following pieces ready to rock and roll, assuming the 2nd half improvements are real Moncada Jimenez Anderson Giolito Lopez Rodon These are the core players for these two seasons I think they should trade Rodon, but they probably won't. The Sox also have the following hitters they have to figure out what to do with: Abreu Avi Garcia Palka The Sox also have a huge hole at the following positions: 3B RF(if Avi is non-tendered) CF SP 4-5' So, Why not drag some mid-tier FA in for a stop gap or two and see what happens? The payroll is miniscule, so why not bring some vets in? At the very worst, you could flip them when necessary. Targets CF-Pollock, Brantley, Jones RF(if they don't bring Avi back) -McCutchen, Carlos Gonzalez 3B-Donaldson, Moustakas RHSP-Morton, Lynn, Harvey LHSP-Ryu, Happ, Pomeranz, Gio Gonzalez The point of this exercise is to see if they could sneak into a WC spot, without signing anyone to more than a 2 or 3 year deal. Unlikely, but with the sting of Kopech's injury still fresh, it would be a breath of fresh air to the fanbase to see if they could spend a few bucks and get some winning under the young guys belts. I don't know if it is really worth it or not, but whatever. Just would be fun to try. They're probably not going to do this anyway. The one caveat is they can't trade for anyone at all, only money is involved here. If they want, and if Abreu is up for it I wouldn't be opposed to offering him a 2 year extension, which would be a 3 year contract buying out his last season of arbitration. Edited September 8, 2018 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 Go look at the Yankees and the Athletics, the 2 teams that are going to take the AL Wild Card this year, and ask yourself if your roster comes anywhere close to measuring up to them. Severino, Judge, Torres, Stanton, Chapman, and $50 million+ to play with this offseason, and they're a wild card team. Really, you think you're going to sneak into a wild card spot in this league with Moustakas and Cargo? Not with these teams. If you're going to sign someone, fine. Clearly we have to sign 2 starting pitchers minimum, we simply don't have the horses right now to even field a roster. But don't even think about the Wild Card while doing it, think about the holes you have and flipping guys only. If some magic happens and Moncada outplays Trout next year, then great, but you can't make business decisions where a key part of it is "and then a miracle occurs". 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted September 8, 2018 Author Share Posted September 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Go look at the Yankees and the Athletics, the 2 teams that are going to take the AL Wild Card this year, and ask yourself if your roster comes anywhere close to measuring up to them. Severino, Judge, Torres, Stanton, Chapman, and $50 million+ to play with this offseason, and they're a wild card team. Really, you think you're going to sneak into a wild card spot in this league with Moustakas and Cargo? Not with these teams. If you're going to sign someone, fine. Clearly we have to sign 2 starting pitchers minimum, we simply don't have the horses right now to even field a roster. But don't even think about the Wild Card while doing it, think about the holes you have and flipping guys only. If some magic happens and Moncada outplays Trout next year, then great, but you can't make business decisions where a key part of it is "and then a miracle occurs". I don't think it is worth it either, but it is just a fun try. A lot depends on Jimenez, Moncada, Giolito and Lopez taking off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 Just so you know Brantley hasn't played any CF the last 3 years and very very little since 2012. Jones is pretty much on life support as a CF and as a productive major leaguer having posted just a .3 WAR this year. Pollock's been pretty injury prone and probably also should be a corner OF. Marwin Gonzales puts the super in super utility plays mostly LF .SS , 2B,!B and very little 3B and even less CF as to be a non factor there. Cargo is the role model for great splits in Coors not so great way from Coors. Donaldson will fit right in as The Bringer of Rain. He might be a good bounce back guy and a useful trade chip if he can stay healthy. But if anyone offers him 3 years forget it. Could always use the LH power of a guy like Moustaskas. Outside of Brantley and possibly Gonzales none of these guys should get a qualifying offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iWiN4PreP Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 I want to make a note about A.J. Pollock. This guy has been absolutely horrid for the past 30+ days since he returned from injury. I'm not talking bad, I'm talking HORRID. I no longer advocate for him at all, I'd rather have Engel over Pollock. I feel Pollock's best days are gone thanks to Age+Injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 Machado, Arenado or bust on offensive free agents IMO. MAYBE Harper, but this season from him scares me and he's still going to get mega dollars. I think Corbin would also be an interesting sign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwill Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 I would like to see the following: Sign Donaldson (2 Year-48 million) to play 3B Sign McCutchen (2-36 million) to play CF- I know he can't really field the position but hopefully you can move him to RF when in one year. Let Jordan Guerraro and Stephen pitch in September. I am not saying take the ball every 5th day but it would not hurt for them to get 2 starts in before the end of the year. I would try to sign somebody like J.A Happ to a (2 year-40 million) One good thing about having a very low payroll is you can give guys higher AAV than most teams without long term commitments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 35 minutes ago, kwill said: I would like to see the following: Sign Donaldson (2 Year-48 million) to play 3B Sign McCutchen (2-36 million) to play CF- I know he can't really field the position but hopefully you can move him to RF when in one year. Let Jordan Guerraro and Stephen pitch in September. I am not saying take the ball every 5th day but it would not hurt for them to get 2 starts in before the end of the year. I would try to sign somebody like J.A Happ to a (2 year-40 million) One good thing about having a very low payroll is you can give guys higher AAV than most teams without long term commitments. This says a lot about your plan. Josh Donaldson has 159 plate appearances so far this year. He has a .757 OPS on the season. He has played in 36 big league games. You've got down $24 million a season for the guy who just did that, the highest per season salary in white sox history. I don't think those numbers are all that wrong. But that says how bad of an idea it is. You sign those 3 guys, at least 1 of them is a complete bust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footlongcomiskeydog Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 (edited) 47 minutes ago, kwill said: I would like to see the following: Sign Donaldson (2 Year-48 million) to play 3B Sign McCutchen (2-36 million) to play CF- I know he can't really field the position but hopefully you can move him to RF when in one year. Let Jordan Guerraro and Stephen pitch in September. I am not saying take the ball every 5th day but it would not hurt for them to get 2 starts in before the end of the year. I would try to sign somebody like J.A Happ to a (2 year-40 million) One good thing about having a very low payroll is you can give guys higher AAV than most teams without long term commitments. I gotta disagree with this plan man. This screams half assing it to me and will most likely only result in the Sox winning 75 games or so the next few years. This team either needs to break the bank with some impact FA signings spread out over the next few offseasons or they need to trade guys like Rodon, Avi, and Jose and embrace the tank for another 2-3 years until Kopech is back at full strength and all the other prospects are ready to rock. Edited September 8, 2018 by footlongcomiskeydog 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Dam8610 said: Machado, Arenado or bust on offensive free agents IMO. MAYBE Harper, but this season from him scares me and he's still going to get mega dollars. I think Corbin would also be an interesting sign. Agree on Corbin but Arenado won't be a FA until after the 2019 season ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iWiN4PreP Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 Give me Harper AND Machado! Go big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 I like signing Corbin this year and Arenado next year. I LOVE signing Corbin AND Harper this year and then of course Arenado the following year 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 4 hours ago, kwill said: I would like to see the following: Sign Donaldson (2 Year-48 million) to play 3B Sign McCutchen (2-36 million) to play CF- I know he can't really field the position but hopefully you can move him to RF when in one year. Let Jordan Guerraro and Stephen pitch in September. I am not saying take the ball every 5th day but it would not hurt for them to get 2 starts in before the end of the year. I would try to sign somebody like J.A Happ to a (2 year-40 million) One good thing about having a very low payroll is you can give guys higher AAV than most teams without long term commitments. Why did we even trade Sale, Eaton and Q if that was the best fallback plan when things didn’t go according to plan? No, the next thing we’ll be hearing is “keeping the powder dry” and not allocating valuable resources for placeholders...or that we’ll really be able to sign some high quality players when the new tv contract begins (skipping over the fact that Moncada and Kopech excelling in 2019 was one of the biggest selling points for getting a better tv deal). Now you’re putting all your hopes in Jimenez and Machado/Harper are arguably the only two players who could move the bar significantly in terms of fan interest. Trade for Ohtani to shake up the franchise? They need to earn their money and reformulate something interesting, that’s for sure. More Shields, Yolmer, Engel, Delmonico and Davidson puts the Sox in the “they might as well relocate to Charlotte or San Antonio/Austin” conversations. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 11 hours ago, BlackSox13 said: Agree on Corbin but Arenado won't be a FA until after the 2019 season ends. I know. What I'm saying is I don't want the team to miss out on Machado, panic, and feel like they have to spend money instead of waiting for Arenado next year. Stay disciplined, get good value in all trades and free agent signings, and eventually it will all pay off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 The fact that we're all of a sudden hearing about how we need to spend 9 figures to sign a starting pitcher after all of the trades that brought back starting pitching should point out why that's a rotten idea. If we do wind up needing to spend that kind of money on a starting pitcher, then we have absolutely flopped in our talent evaluation and development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-Gun Pete Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: If we do wind up needing to spend that kind of money on a starting pitcher, then we have absolutely flopped in our talent evaluation and development. I agree with all of this, which is exactly why the entire front office needs to be fired. Every. Fucking. Last One. Of. Them. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 19 hours ago, Jack Parkman said: OK, so the Sox, next season and in 2020, will have the following pieces ready to rock and roll, assuming the 2nd half improvements are real Moncada Jimenez Anderson Giolito Lopez Rodon These are the core players for these two seasons I think they should trade Rodon, but they probably won't. The Sox also have the following hitters they have to figure out what to do with: Abreu Avi Garcia Palka The Sox also have a huge hole at the following positions: 3B RF(if Avi is non-tendered) CF SP 4-5' So, Why not drag some mid-tier FA in for a stop gap or two and see what happens? The payroll is miniscule, so why not bring some vets in? At the very worst, you could flip them when necessary. Targets CF-Pollock, Brantley, Jones RF(if they don't bring Avi back) -McCutchen, Carlos Gonzalez 3B-Donaldson, Moustakas RHSP-Morton, Lynn, Harvey LHSP-Ryu, Happ, Pomeranz, Gio Gonzalez The point of this exercise is to see if they could sneak into a WC spot, without signing anyone to more than a 2 or 3 year deal. Unlikely, but with the sting of Kopech's injury still fresh, it would be a breath of fresh air to the fanbase to see if they could spend a few bucks and get some winning under the young guys belts. I don't know if it is really worth it or not, but whatever. Just would be fun to try. They're probably not going to do this anyway. The one caveat is they can't trade for anyone at all, only money is involved here. If they want, and if Abreu is up for it I wouldn't be opposed to offering him a 2 year extension, which would be a 3 year contract buying out his last season of arbitration. At minimum they need a vet SP and quality 3B. Abreu and Palka for sure in my lineup. Avi is on the buble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxbrad Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Two-Gun Pete said: I agree with all of this, which is exactly why the entire front office needs to be fired. Every. Fucking. Last One. Of. Them. Ditto We as white Sox fans expect little, and this organization gives us less. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 (edited) 21 hours ago, Jack Parkman said: Targets CF-Pollock, Brantley, Jones RF(if they don't bring Avi back) -McCutchen, Carlos Gonzalez 3B-Donaldson, Moustakas RHSP-Morton, Lynn, Harvey LHSP-Ryu, Happ, Pomeranz, Gio Gonzalez The point of this exercise is to see if they could sneak into a WC spot, without signing anyone to more than a 2 or 3 year deal. Unlikely, but with the sting of Kopech's injury still fresh, it would be a breath of fresh air to the fanbase to see if they could spend a few bucks and get some winning under the young guys belts. I don't know if it is really worth it or not, but whatever. Just would be fun to try. They're probably not going to do this anyway. The one caveat is they can't trade for anyone at all, only money is involved here. If they want, and if Abreu is up for it I wouldn't be opposed to offering him a 2 year extension, which would be a 3 year contract buying out his last season of arbitration. They could have done that without rebuilding. In fact, they did. And it didn't work then and it won't now. This exactly what needs to be avoided. Edited September 9, 2018 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Two-Gun Pete said: I agree with all of this, which is exactly why the entire front office needs to be fired. Every. Fucking. Last One. Of. Them. Another failure of the front office that no one has mentioned is they failed to get any free agents in the off season when they were really cheap that could've been flipped this year, Instead they decided to give chances to guys like Engel, Sanchez . Davidson, Cordell , Delmonico. How has that worked out . I argued with just about everybody on this boatd who didn't want Moustakas because of giving up a 2nd round pick . The Royals gave him a year at $6.5M. Maybe the Sox could've got him for an extra .5M .So this is not just hindsight on my part. The Royals got a pretty good return in Brent Phillips and Jorge Lopez. Phillips has higher upside than Engel is younger and has a cannon for an arm and Lopez just pitched 8 innings of perfect ball against the Twins, Both AAA players where the Sox are weak and an arm like Lopez surely would've helped in the event of a Kopech injury. Ok so maybe the Sox don't get the same players in return but I would've rather had a similar return than Steele Walker another OF when the Sox are loaded in the OF in the minors and very far away from the majors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Balta1701 said: The fact that we're all of a sudden hearing about how we need to spend 9 figures to sign a starting pitcher after all of the trades that brought back starting pitching should point out why that's a rotten idea. If we do wind up needing to spend that kind of money on a starting pitcher, then we have absolutely flopped in our talent evaluation and development. There will be two holes in the rotation after Shields is bought out. Are you comfortable with two of Guerrero, Covey, Adams, Stephens filling those two spots? I'm not. Cease likely won't be ready for a call-up until August or September next year. Then there's the set backs with Dunning and Hansen. I see no problem with a team that has plenty of money to spend shoring up one of those spots with a free agent pitcher. It's not like giving Corbin a big contract would cripple the White Sox finances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 5 hours ago, Dam8610 said: I know. What I'm saying is I don't want the team to miss out on Machado, panic, and feel like they have to spend money instead of waiting for Arenado next year. Stay disciplined, get good value in all trades and free agent signings, and eventually it will all pay off. Okay I see where you're coming from now and agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 Rodon to Cardinals for Reyes and Gorman? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 23 hours ago, Balta1701 said: Go look at the Yankees and the Athletics, the 2 teams that are going to take the AL Wild Card this year, and ask yourself if your roster comes anywhere close to measuring up to them. Severino, Judge, Torres, Stanton, Chapman, and $50 million+ to play with this offseason, and they're a wild card team. Really, you think you're going to sneak into a wild card spot in this league with Moustakas and Cargo? Not with these teams. If you're going to sign someone, fine. Clearly we have to sign 2 starting pitchers minimum, we simply don't have the horses right now to even field a roster. But don't even think about the Wild Card while doing it, think about the holes you have and flipping guys only. If some magic happens and Moncada outplays Trout next year, then great, but you can't make business decisions where a key part of it is "and then a miracle occurs". A's have overachieved. It is this teams having seasons like this that gives you hope that if Sox add a couple of pieces and the young players take a step forward (much like Chapman from 2017 -18) that you could get back into the race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 (edited) To add to what I said about Moustaskas a few posts above this one which I posted in another thread since we have so many now about what happens next. I also wanted JD Martinez and he's only going for a Triple Crown this year .Quite the hitter the Red Sox picked up for maybe a 1/3 of what Harper and Machado will end up costing. I know he's older than them and doesn't bring the defense and his contract is very complicated with player opt outs for FA after the 2nd and 3rd year and mutual options after that . Doesn't sound like a bad deal for the player or the team.Maybe the W. Sox could've flipped him too if they had signed him to a higher and similar deal. He'd have had an extra yr to play with but could've got a return similar or better to what the Dodgers gave up for Machado . The extra year worth more than what Machado brings defensively in only 1/2 season . I am on record of wanting both Moustakas and JD Martinez many times in the off season and spring training when they both were still unsigned. I certainly know I don't have the credentials to be a GM, far far far from it. But in those 2 instances. I think I did better than the W, Sox front office did and the many posters who didn't want either because they didn't fit the window of competition, the draft choice we would've lost and the chance to see if any of our scrubs turned in gold. Edited September 9, 2018 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside remove repetitive stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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