Sox have "flexibility" to add "long term pieces"

[southsider2k5]

More interesting quotes from yesterday

https://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/worst-of-rebuild-should-be-over-for-white-sox-hahn-says/

“In terms of major transactions we remain committed to putting ourselves in the best position for an extended run,’’ he said. “So we’re not looking for short-term fixes that will complicate things in the long run.’’

“We’re closer now than we were 12 months ago to being ready to contend,’’ Hahn said.

The Sox aren’t there yet for adding finishing pieces via free agency, but Hahn said they will remain “opportunistic.”

 

[Dick Allen]

19 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

If your work is going off of a single offer, you are missing a rather large body of work when it comes to free agents signing with bad teams.

While it might seem obnoxious, it is sort of how the gigantic contracts have played out. Someone goes nuts. ARod, Cano, Pujols.....it's a small sample size because there aren't a lot players commanding this much money, but chances are, whoever signs these guys isn't going to be just$1 million more than the next best offer, unless it's a place they really want to be. The unknown is maybe Machado and/or Harper like Chicago and playing for the White Sox appeals to them more than we know. 

Edited September 27, 2018 by Dick Allen

[asindc]

3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

While it might seem obnoxious, it is sort of how the gigantic contracts have played out. Someone goes nuts. ARod, Cano, Pujols.....it's a small sample size because there aren't a lot players commanding this much money, but chances are, whoever signs these guys isn't going to be just$1 million more than the next best offer, unless it's a place they really want to be. The unknown is maybe Machado and/or Harper like Chicago and playing for the White Sox appeals to them more than we know. 

It is worth noting that each of the three players you mention did not/have not gotten anywhere close to winning an AL pennant, let alone a World Series, with the team that signed them to his monster contract (Texas, in the case of ARod, LAAAA in the case of Pujols).  That's why I don't get all bent when the Sox don't get crazy like that.  With that said, I believe Machado is worth the risk, Harper less so.

Edited September 27, 2018 by asindc

[Dick Allen]

34 minutes ago, asindc said:

It is worth noting that each of the three players you mention did not/have not gotten anywhere close to winning an AL pennant, let alone a World Series, with the team that signed them to his monster contract (Texas, in the case of ARod, LAAAA in the case of Pujols).  That's why I don't get all bent when the Sox don't get crazy like that.  With that said, I believe Machado is worth the risk, Harper less so.

It wasn't because of ARod's performance they didn't win. 7.8,10.0, and 9.2 were his WAR numbers.  Pujols has been a shell of his Cardinal self. You just have to make sure what you offer isn't going to destroy spending on something like pitching.

Edited September 27, 2018 by Dick Allen

[asindc]

26 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

It wasn't because of ARod's performance they didn't win. Pujols has been a shell of his Cardinal self. You just have to make sure what you offer isn't going to destroy spending on something like pitching.

Agreed, but that is the point.  Most teams that have paid out these monster contracts on one player have not spent enough or developed enough elsewhere to make it worthwhile.  Whether they could afford to or not is another matter, but unless you are prepared to make a large luxury tax payment, paying one player that kind of money is likely not to work.

[whitesoxbrad]

4 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

People will eat up anything positive considered how long this team has been bad. I was thinking last night, after watching Biebs make the Sox look like 8 year olds,who is going to be the future multiple time All Star this winter after the Sox hold their "hitter's camp". At this point, most of us will take anything. You can see it when people actually wouldn't mind James Shields to return. James Shields. We are excited about several guys who have OBP of .280. It will really be a pleasure when we can be excited about real players.

Outstanding comments, we as Sox fans have received so little from this organization and I would not give them 1penny of my money and watching them last night I felt so sorry for those great fans that went out there to watch coaches and players that need to be replaced just like they are in every organization in all sports but not ours we deserve better, the question is when will we get the respect we deserve as Sox fans.

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, whitesoxbrad said:

Outstanding comments, we as Sox fans have received so little from this organization and I would not give them 1penny of my money and watching them last night I felt so sorry for those great fans that went out there to watch coaches and players that need to be replaced just like they are in every organization in all sports but not ours we deserve better, the question is when will we get the respect we deserve as Sox fans.

Then why are you wasting your time here?  You won't give them a penny, yet are letting them live in your head rent-free where you need to complain about them.  Walk the walk and respect yourself first.

[whitesoxbrad]

16 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Then why are you wasting your time here?  You won't give them a penny, yet are letting them live in your head rent-free where you need to complain about them.  Walk the walk and respect yourself first.

I am not wasting my time at all and I do respect myself just fine, just a fan telling those what I see that I guess you don't

[southsider2k5]

Just now, whitesoxbrad said:

I am not wasting my time at all and I do respect myself just fine, just a fan telling those what I see that I guess you don't

I will never understand this being something that makes people so angry and miserable that they need to lash out about... yet keep doing it.  If your fandom is that awful of an experience, you are doing it wrong.

[ScootsMcGoots]

Here's the bottom line. None of us have gone through this before, or, if you were around in the early 90s, it's been a long time. From everything I am hearing from the professionals, this shit takes TIME. It is ALL a waiting game. None of us know how it's going to pan out, which players will succeed and which ones won't. Sure, as fans, we want to see better product on the field, and seeing multiple losing seasons in a row sucks. Guess what, WE DON'T HAVE TO FOLLOW THIS TEAM. WE DON'T DESERVE ANYTHING. We CHOOSE to buy into the White Sox product. We CHOOSE to watch this shit day in and day out. We don't have to. Anyone with brains knows that this rebuilding thing is going to take 4-5 years before we see them at least start to contend, especially with the injuries in 2018. We can b**** about what happened with the moves made back in 2007, or 2009, or 2010, or 2011, or 2013, or 14, or 15, or 16. But guess what, none of it matters. We are where we are now, we are going for SUCK another year, probably hovering around .500 in 2020, and then hopefully win the division in 2021. So until then, quit b****ing about it. But who the hell knows? We might catch lightning in a bottle next year! Now, it would be foolish to hang your hat on that, but it could happen. We also might not win anything until 2025. Get excited about the players in the minors. They raked this year. People like Rutherford and Basabe showed real promise. And not to mention Cease and Eloy. Sure, there were a few setbacks, like with Hansen, but there is so much more the be excited about. 

[Lip Man 1]

Time will answer all the questions. I for one do not see any major free agents signing here. I do see the Sox trying to get pitching depth and improve a bullpen that basically has been a disaster and have blown 16 games where they had a lead in the 7th inning or later and wound up losing.

Even those modest improvements would help next year but they are not even close to a winning record / let alone contending.

[ChiSox59]

4 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

If your work is going off of a single offer, you are missing a rather large body of work when it comes to free agents signing with bad teams.

BUT BUT BUT it fits his narrative.  So there's that. 

[Jack Parkman]

14 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

BUT BUT BUT it fits his narrative.  So there's that. 

Not really. Sure there are plenty of instances of older FA going to bad teams for big money, but that is because they're older and have either won or are looking to cash in on their last big contract. A-Rod is really the only example of a young superstar going to a bad team. It took a ~60M better offer than the next team, in 2000, for him to join the lesser team. Today, a bad team would probably have to overpay by 100+M. Why would a young superstar with so much of his career ahead of him go somewhere for his prime where his best seasons could be wasted? Honest question. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

5 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

I am impressed how you can manage to call bullshit, and then type an outright falsehood in the very next sentence.  The history of playing signing huge contracts with awful teams is incredibly well documented.  If you don't see it, it isn't because it isn't true, it is because you don't want to see it.

It's never as simple as  players signing contracts with bad teams . Sox probably signed Castillo for any little advantage they can get with Machado. Also a lot depends on if the player has won a world series. Once he has he's more likely to sign with a bad team IMHO.

[southsider2k5]

Just now, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It's never as simple as  players signing contracts with bad teams . Sox probably signed Castillo for any little advantage they can get with Machado. Also a lot depends on if the player has won a world series. Once he has he's more likely to sign with a bad team IMHO.

I don't see the correlation between players sighing big deals with bad teams and having won the World Series already.  Examples?

 

[Special K]

We only get Machado if we outbid every other team and by a significant amount.  I just don't see the Sox doing that.  I hope I'm wrong, but, history says otherwise.  Our best chance of getting that kind of talent is through a trade.  I sit here and see how the Brewers acquired the NL MVP (Yelich) and wonder why the Sox didn't make that move.  Smarter front office is the only answer that comes to mind.  

[Jose Abreu]

3 minutes ago, Special K said:

We only get Machado if we outbid every other team and by a significant amount.  I just don't see the Sox doing that.  I hope I'm wrong, but, history says otherwise.  Our best chance of getting that kind of talent is through a trade.  I sit here and see how the Brewers acquired the NL MVP (Yelich) and wonder why the Sox didn't make that move.  Smarter front office is the only answer that comes to mind.  

Had we traded for Yelich, we'd be without one of Eloy/Robert and one of Cease/Dunning right now. The anti-Hahn backlash would've shut this site down. 

[ChiSox59]

32 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Not really. Sure there are plenty of instances of older FA going to bad teams for big money, but that is because they're older and have either won or are looking to cash in on their last big contract. A-Rod is really the only example of a young superstar going to a bad team. It took a ~60M better offer than the next team, in 2000, for him to join the lesser team. Today, a bad team would probably have to overpay by 100+M. Why would a young superstar with so much of his career ahead of him go somewhere for his prime where his best seasons could be wasted? Honest question. 

Because the White Sox appear positioned to be one of the best teams in the AL over the next decade.  The only teams that appear to be positioned better at the Red Sox (who he hates - but I still think are a huge risk) and the Yankees (whom already have a young 3B entrenched).  I am far from convinced MM will be on the White Sox, but I do think they'll take a run at him, and I don't think he'll need to be paid at $75M premium to sign with the Sox (which IMO is big time chicken little crazy talk). 

[Thad Bosley]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

I will never understand this being something that makes people so angry and miserable that they need to lash out about... yet keep doing it.  If your fandom is that awful of an experience, you are doing it wrong.

That's because you are just a casual fan, versus being a die-hard fan, like the poster who you berated.  

As the casual fan you are, you've made it very clear over the years that you are completely content with the Sox as long as they are playing the grand, 'ol game of baseball while wearing jerseys that say "SOX" on them.  That checks off on all of the boxes that are meaningful to you.

Meanwhile, the diehard Sox fans, just like diehard fans of any team of any sport, will often get emotional, particularly if they are faced with the kind of chronic losing our fans have been faced with, which will spill over into anger from time to time.  That's the nature of a diehard fan, always has been, always will be.  You as a mere casual fan really should try a little harder to realize and acknowledge that.   

[southsider2k5]

Just now, Fan O'Faust said:

That's because you are just a casual fan, versus being a die-hard fan, like the poster who you berated.  

As the casual fan you are, you've made it very clear over the years that you are completely content with the Sox as long as they are playing the grand, 'ol game of baseball while wearing jerseys that say "SOX" on them.  That checks off on all of the boxes that are meaningful to you.

Meanwhile, the diehard Sox fans, just like diehard fans of any team of any sport, will often get emotional, particularly if they are faced with the kind of chronic losing our fans have been faced with, which will spill over into anger from time to time.  That's the nature of a diehard fan, always has been, always will be.  You as a mere casual fan really should try a little harder to realize and acknowledge that.   

This isn't being a die hard fan.  This is throwing an all out temper tantrum on an regular basis over a game.  It is not being able to control your emotions and understand what is important and what isn't, as well as what the world owes you, and what is does not.

[bubba phillips]

2 hours ago, whitesoxbrad said:

Outstanding comments, we as Sox fans have received so little from this organization and I would not give them 1penny of my money and watching them last night I felt so sorry for those great fans that went out there to watch coaches and players that need to be replaced just like they are in every organization in all sports but not ours we deserve better, the question is when will we get the respect we deserve as Sox fans.

Pretty  damn long sentence.

[Jack Parkman]

25 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Because the White Sox appear positioned to be one of the best teams in the AL over the next decade.  The only teams that appear to be positioned better at the Red Sox (who he hates - but I still think are a huge risk) and the Yankees (whom already have a young 3B entrenched).  I am far from convinced MM will be on the White Sox, but I do think they'll take a run at him, and I don't think he'll need to be paid at $75M premium to sign with the Sox (which IMO is big time chicken little crazy talk). 

Do you truly believe that? There is a ton of uncertainty with a lot of the Sox prospects and young MLB players. You can't say anything for sure. The surest thing the Sox have is Eloy and everyone else is a massive question mark currently. In  October 2017 it was much more plausible than it is now. There are players I WANT to believe in, but their performance doesn't justify the faith I have that they will turn it around. Because of that, out of all of the teams that are 2+ seasons into their rebuild, The Sox are among the most questionable that they'll have a winning record anytime soon. If I was speaking with my heart, of course I'd agree. But my brain says otherwise. 

Edited September 27, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[GreenSox]

That's fine if they want to go after Machado or Harper; or even a 2nd/3rd tier pitcher like Corbin...some stability in the rotation will help.

Otherwise, it's a repeat of 2015 which prompts one to ask, why rebuild?

[southsider2k5]

Just now, GreenSox said:

That's fine if they want to go after Machado or Harper; or even a 2nd/3rd tier pitcher like Corbin...some stability in the rotation will help.

Otherwise, it's a repeat of 2015 which prompts one to ask, why rebuild?

Only if you have no idea what a rebuild looks like.

[Special K]

28 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

Had we traded for Yelich, we'd be without one of Eloy/Robert and one of Cease/Dunning right now. The anti-Hahn backlash would've shut this site down. 

Obviously Jimenez is off limits.  But I don't necessarily have a problem with trading away some of the young organizational talent for a return like Yelich, so long as it pans out.  As we've seen, these prospects are certainly not guarantees either.