Lip Man 1 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 (edited) Really getting bored and frustrated here in the hospital so I thought this may be a nice way to pass some time. I do this every year as a thought experiment just to get opinions. Naturally this has little connection with reality since roster construction is so interdependent on things like health, free agent signings and so forth. But looking at the current 40 man roster with each player taken in a vacuum unrelated to other players who would you like to see just flat out gone from this rag tag bunch? Here would be my selections (and the sheer number of them says all you need to know about the current overall talent) Bummer Covey Farquhar Fulmer Gomez Gonzales Jones Minaya Ruiz Santiago Scahill Shields Vieira Castillo Cordell A. Garcia L. Garcia LaMarre Tilson Obviously the Sox aren't probably going to cut half of these retreads, stiffs and deadbeats but in a perfect world, every single one of them would be out the door for me for various reasons...no talent, can't stay healthy, shows little hope of getting better, age etc. Edited October 1, 2018 by Lip Man 1 wrong name Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 10 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: Really getting bored and frustrated here in the hospital so I thought this may be a nice way to pass some time. I do this every year as a thought experiment just to get opinions. Naturally this has little connection with reality since roster construction is so interdependent on things like health, free agent signings and so forth. But looking at the current 40 man roster with each player taken in a vacuum unrelated to other players who would you like to see just flat out gone from this rag tag bunch? Here would be my selections (and the sheer number of them says all you need to know about the current overall talent) Bummer Covey Farquhar Fulmer Gomez Gonzales Jones Minaya Ruiz Santiago Scahill Shields Vieira Castro Cordell A. Garcia L. Garcia LaMarre Tilson Obviously the Sox aren't probably going to cut half of these retreads, stiffs and deadbeats but in a perfect world, every single one of them would be out the door for me for various reasons...no talent, can't stay healthy, shows little hope of getting better, age etc. I can see the guys i crossed out all finding work elsewhere. Avi, Leury, Castro and Ruiz have a chance also  I hope whatever has you in the hospital isnt too serious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 I think the idea of non-tendering Avi is intriguing, but I also like having control of him in case he has another monster year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 I believe Jones' option is for the league minimum due to the clause that states him having elbow surgery prior to 2019 would make it so. He had elbow surgery in 2017. Easy keep for the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 7 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said: I believe Jones' option is for the league minimum due to the clause that states him having elbow surgery prior to 2019 would make it so. He had elbow surgery in 2017. Easy keep for the price. IIRC the cost to buyout Jones is actually more than his salary for 2019 should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 31 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: Really getting bored and frustrated here in the hospital so I thought this may be a nice way to pass some time. I do this every year as a thought experiment just to get opinions. Naturally this has little connection with reality since roster construction is so interdependent on things like health, free agent signings and so forth. But looking at the current 40 man roster with each player taken in a vacuum unrelated to other players who would you like to see just flat out gone from this rag tag bunch? Here would be my selections (and the sheer number of them says all you need to know about the current overall talent) Bummer Covey Farquhar Fulmer Gomez Gonzales Jones Minaya Ruiz Santiago Scahill Shields Vieira Castro Cordell A. Garcia L. Garcia LaMarre Tilson Obviously the Sox aren't probably going to cut half of these retreads, stiffs and deadbeats but in a perfect world, every single one of them would be out the door for me for various reasons...no talent, can't stay healthy, shows little hope of getting better, age etc. If we are just talking about off of the 40 man roster, this is what I see. Avi/Leury-Nontendered Not brought back-Farquar/Gonzalez/Scahill/Santiago (maybe a MiLB deal later?) Brought back-Shields DFA'd-Tilson/Garneau/Gomez I have no idea who Castro is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 They should give Jose Rondon more playing time...but still think Leury and Yolmer stick around for at least one more year. Too early to make decisions on most of those pen guys. Fulmer (ala Borchard) desperately needs a change of scenery deal for another busted prospect like Matt Thornton. Covey will be in the rotation to start the year unless they add more than one veteran.  There’s nobody close to pushing him in the minors until Cease arrives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 For the Rule 5 Draft, they will likely add Dylan Cease, Jordan Stephens, Spencer Adams, Kodi Medeiros and Seby Zavala to the 40-man. Shields, Gonzalez, Santiago, Scahill, Gomezm LaMarre, and Garneau are pretty easy to remove though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Just now, Y2Jimmy0 said: For the Rule 5 Draft, they will likely add Dylan Cease, Jordan Stephens, Spencer Adams, Kodi Medeiros and Seby Zavala to the 40-man. Shields, Gonzalez, Santiago, Scahill, Gomezm LaMarre, and Garneau are pretty easy to remove though. I am going to go out and say that I doubt Adams or Stephens gets added to the 40. If the Sox saw them as needing protection, they would have added them a month early and had them up here for September. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: I am going to go out and say that I doubt Adams or Stephens gets added to the 40. If the Sox saw them as needing protection, they would have added them a month early and had them up here for September. We'll see. Losing them for nothing when you have tons of roster space would be pretty foolish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 1 minute ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: We'll see. Losing them for nothing when you have tons of roster space would be pretty foolish. I also don't think we will lose them. Neither really fits the profile of guys who are taken in Rule 5. The same thing happened with Guerrero last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: I also don't think we will lose them. Neither really fits the profile of guys who are taken in Rule 5. The same thing happened with Guerrero last year. They are both pretty firmly top 20 prospects in a top 3 system. Not special but Stephens could definitely get picked by someone. Especially if being used out of the bullpen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 2 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said: Really getting bored and frustrated here in the hospital so I thought this may be a nice way to pass some time. I do this every year as a thought experiment just to get opinions. Naturally this has little connection with reality since roster construction is so interdependent on things like health, free agent signings and so forth. But looking at the current 40 man roster with each player taken in a vacuum unrelated to other players who would you like to see just flat out gone from this rag tag bunch? Here would be my selections (and the sheer number of them says all you need to know about the current overall talent) Bummer Covey Farquhar Fulmer Gomez Gonzales Jones Minaya Ruiz Santiago Scahill Shields Vieira Castro Cordell A. Garcia L. Garcia LaMarre Tilson Obviously the Sox aren't probably going to cut half of these retreads, stiffs and deadbeats but in a perfect world, every single one of them would be out the door for me for various reasons...no talent, can't stay healthy, shows little hope of getting better, age etc. Releasing controllable and cheap players like Covey, Fulmer, Ruiz, Vieria, Cordell, Leury, Tilson, and Bummer makes absolutely zero sense and stating otherwise exhibits a rather stark lack of understanding of the game and is just meatball talk.   Gomez, Gonzalez, Santiago, Scahill, Shields, and LaMarre are all very likely gone. As is whoever Castro is, because we don't have a Castro on the 40 man.  Jones will be retained because its cheaper to retain him than buy him out. By the way - Merkin made a post on twitter about Nate's option and appeared not to know this. Pretty embarrassing.  Farquhar is a unique situation and I hope the Sox bring him back on a minors deal.  Minaya and Tilson are probably DFA'd to make 40 man room, but Minaya was pretty decent at times this year so may be retained. I'd non-tender Avi, but I could see it going both ways. Same thing for Leury, but I'd keep Leury around. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 35 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: I also don't think we will lose them. Neither really fits the profile of guys who are taken in Rule 5. The same thing happened with Guerrero last year. I think Stephens would be one of the first few names off the board if the Sox left him unprotected. He's definitely MLB bullpen material. He'll be added. I could see it going either way with Adams.   44 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: For the Rule 5 Draft, they will likely add Dylan Cease, Jordan Stephens, Spencer Adams, Kodi Medeiros and Seby Zavala to the 40-man. Shields, Gonzalez, Santiago, Scahill, Gomezm LaMarre, and Garneau are pretty easy to remove though. What prospects of note would be left unprotected based on this list?  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 5 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Releasing controllable and cheap players like Covey, Fulmer, Ruiz, Vieria, Cordell, Leury, Tilson, and Bummer makes absolutely zero sense and stating otherwise exhibits a rather stark lack of understanding of the game and is just meatball talk.   Gomez, Gonzalez, Santiago, Scahill, Shields, and LaMarre are all very likely gone. As is whoever Castro is, because we don't have a Castro on the 40 man.  Jones will be retained because its cheaper to retain him than buy him out. By the way - Merkin made a post on twitter about Nate's option and appeared not to know this. Pretty embarrassing.  Farquhar is a unique situation and I hope the Sox bring him back on a minors deal.  Minaya and Tilson are probably DFA'd to make 40 man room, but Minaya was pretty decent at times this year so may be retained. I'd non-tender Avi, but I could see it going both ways. Same thing for Leury, but I'd keep Leury around. Fully agreed with the bolded. There is ZERO reason to give away a decent amount of talent. As to Minaya, I think he is back next year in the middle innings somewhere. His numbers have actually stabilized after a really bad July. In his last two months he has a WHIP around 1.1 a walk about every 3 innings, and a K rate of over 10.5/9. His season numbers aren't great, but they are being destroyed by a really bad July. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 10 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: I think Stephens would be one of the first few names off the board if the Sox left him unprotected. He's definitely MLB bullpen material. He'll be added. I could see it going either way with Adams.   What prospects of note would be left unprotected based on this list?  None, really. Danny Mendick, Zack Thompson, Ti'Quan Forbes I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 If this team loses a player that turns into something in the rule 5, shame on them. There have been far healthier organizations that have lost nothing. The rule 5 hasn't really produced much in recent years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 22 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: I think Stephens would be one of the first few names off the board if the Sox left him unprotected. He's definitely MLB bullpen material. He'll be added. I could see it going either way with Adams. Like I said, the fact the White Sox didn't add them to the roster or call them, when they did others (such as Ryan Burr) even when they might not be ready tells me a lot. Heck, when Kopech went down the Sox added Rob Scahill to the 40 man roster and moved Dylan Covey back out of the pen instead of adding Stephens or Adams. That is a big red flag to me as to what the Sox think of those two kids and their futures with the organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepySoxFAN Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 I am former member of the previous Sox forum and have watched from afar at this debacle of a season. At the very least I thought the team could avoid a 100 loss season but they didn't and I would like to see the entire coaching staff released-especially the manager. If they couldn't inspire one more win during the last week they should be the first to go-talk about a defeatist mentality-start for scratch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 29 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Like I said, the fact the White Sox didn't add them to the roster or call them, when they did others (such as Ryan Burr) even when they might not be ready tells me a lot. Heck, when Kopech went down the Sox added Rob Scahill to the 40 man roster and moved Dylan Covey back out of the pen instead of adding Stephens or Adams. That is a big red flag to me as to what the Sox think of those two kids and their futures with the organization. Yah, it surprised me as well. It may have been due to innings. He pitched 146.2 this season after 91.2 in 2017. He had a tough end to the season, so perhaps he was dealing with some arm soreness. Or maybe the Sox just aren't that enamored with him. I guess we'll find out.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Yah, it surprised me as well. It may have been due to innings. He pitched 146.2 this season after 91.2 in 2017. He had a tough end to the season, so perhaps he was dealing with some arm soreness. Or maybe the Sox just aren't that enamored with him. I guess we'll find out.  FWIW, Stephens did put up 141 innings in 2016, so this wasn't entirely new territory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted October 1, 2018 Author Share Posted October 1, 2018 4 hours ago, Kyyle23 said: I can see the guys i crossed out all finding work elsewhere. Avi, Leury, Castro and Ruiz have a chance also  I hope whatever has you in the hospital isnt too serious Thank you but it is pretty bad. Have been here eight days and have had this GI issue for a month. It hasn't been easy. Like the Sox rebuild unfortunately it is a slow process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted October 1, 2018 Author Share Posted October 1, 2018 4 hours ago, southsider2k5 said: If we are just talking about off of the 40 man roster, this is what I see. Avi/Leury-Nontendered Not brought back-Farquar/Gonzalez/Scahill/Santiago (maybe a MiLB deal later?) Brought back-Shields DFA'd-Tilson/Garneau/Gomez I have no idea who Castro is? That is my bad I meant Castillo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted October 1, 2018 Author Share Posted October 1, 2018 2 hours ago, ChiSox59 said: Releasing controllable and cheap players like Covey, Fulmer, Ruiz, Vieria, Cordell, Leury, Tilson, and Bummer makes absolutely zero sense and stating otherwise exhibits a rather stark lack of understanding of the game and is just meatball talk.    I said this was a thought experiment, nothing more. The guys above with the possible exception of L. Garcia are all flat out bad, just awful. They need to be flushed out of the system along with all the other deadwood in a perfect situation, this is not a perfect situation of course but those guys have all had chances and either failed miserably or can't stay healthy which is just as bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: I said this was a thought experiment, nothing more. The guys above with the possible exception of L. Garcia are all flat out bad, just awful. They need to be flushed out of the system along with all the other deadwood in a perfect situation, this is not a perfect situation of course but those guys have all had chances and either failed miserably or can't stay healthy which is just as bad. You would be flushing about half a dozen great arms that 29 other teams would grab in a heartbeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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