bmags Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-dodgers-might-be-in-actual-legal-trouble/ When I saw there was an FBI investigation in MLB's latam operations, I'll admit I didn't think much of it. I thought some fines would come through and some reforms by MLB. It seems based off of this that some significant punishments may come down, especially on dodgers front office, who actually kept a spreadsheet on how criminal some of their contractors/employees were. Great work by SI here: https://www.si.com/mlb/2018/10/02/fbi-investigation-mlb-atlanta-braves-los-angeles-dodgers Thankfully, the sox previous criminal executive means sox are very likely not a part of this, but I have a hard time believing MLB won't respond to this with a draft which means union will need to figure out what exactly they want to receive in return. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Holy crap! That is something like a dozen lines! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 8, 2018 Author Share Posted October 8, 2018 26 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Holy crap! That is something like a dozen lines! Also interested a bit in the grading and how it was used, were they like "Hey, this is a job for a grade 5 criminal, don't be sending that grade 2 criminal out there!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 1 hour ago, bmags said: Also interested a bit in the grading and how it was used, were they like "Hey, this is a job for a grade 5 criminal, don't be sending that grade 2 criminal out there!" And we also saw what happened to the Atlanta people involved in the last problems, if this is really that much bigger in size and scope, this franchise could collapse as it would have to rebuild an entire off of the field organization from top to bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 According to my print edition of Sports Illustrated this week, pages 46-47 (Sorry I can't post a link from a print story...) the Department of Justice is now directly involved probing the ways talent is migrating to MLB from Latin America and Cuba. It centers around violations of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. Multiple victims have already given testimony before a federal grand jury or to law enforcement agents. They have already compiled a lot of documentation including videotapes, photos, legal briefs, receipts, visas and passports and internal team e-mails. The Dodgers seem to be directly at the center of this investigation! * A 2015 document shows Dodger executives developing a database for "egregious behavior" displayed by 15 of their Latin American employees. Five were listed as "criminal." * Internal communications by the Dodgers show concern over a "mafia" entrenched in their operations. * There are references as to how the Dodgers screwed over a legit prominent agent by signing an international player before he could become a free agent. (Puig???) * The dossier on the Dodgers appears to describe efforts to circumvent federal laws and MLB rules requiring Cuban players to establish residency in another country before talking to or signing with a team. Andrew Friedman and Gabe Kapler (he was the Dodgers Director of Player Development between 2014-2017) are under the gun. Witnesses have also been subpoenaed from the Atlanta Braves. Keep an eye on this. This could make the Dave Wilder White Sox scandal look like nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said: And we also saw what happened to the Atlanta people involved in the last problems, if this is really that much bigger in size and scope, this franchise could collapse as it would have to rebuild an entire off of the field organization from top to bottom. The Dodgers will not collapse. They have all the money in the world and like 5 top GM's all on the same payroll. I might be exaggerating slightly but they have legit bench talent throughout their organization. From front office execs to scouts to coaches. They are run like the big "investment" funds and have spent millions acquiring top baseball talent (i.e., scouts and front office people) to pick "investments" (i.e., players). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 4 hours ago, bmags said: Also interested a bit in the grading and how it was used, were they like "Hey, this is a job for a grade 5 criminal, don't be sending that grade 2 criminal out there!" The graph stuff reminds me of this scene. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 2 hours ago, Chisoxfn said: The Dodgers will not collapse. They have all the money in the world and like 5 top GM's all on the same payroll. I might be exaggerating slightly but they have legit bench talent throughout their organization. From front office execs to scouts to coaches. They are run like the big "investment" funds and have spent millions acquiring top baseball talent (i.e., scouts and front office people) to pick "investments" (i.e., players). The money will stick around probably, but with as many people as just were listed, what happens in LA if their entire front office is implicated here? Can a team start completely over? I know individuals get fired as well as groups, but I don't think I have ever seen anything on this complete of a scale. This sounds like it reaches all of the way down to the scouts on the ground and all of the way up to top management. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 15 hours ago, southsider2k5 said: The money will stick around probably, but with as many people as just were listed, what happens in LA if their entire front office is implicated here? Can a team start completely over? I know individuals get fired as well as groups, but I don't think I have ever seen anything on this complete of a scale. This sounds like it reaches all of the way down to the scouts on the ground and all of the way up to top management. Standard corporate fraud response. The higher ups have the organization pay a fine, they fire a few low level fraudsters and blame most of it on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 I'm more interested if any punishment is given , how likely is it that some teams signees become UFA thus benefiting teams that were clean. And will the clean teams be allotted more money to sign any players in some sort of draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 39 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: I'm more interested if any punishment is given , how likely is it that some teams signees become UFA thus benefiting teams that were clean. And will the clean teams be allotted more money to sign any players in some sort of draft. The last time this happened with the Braves, all of the teams that had cap space were able to sign guys under the normal rules. They did add an exception that teams could move the dollars forward into the next signing period if they desired. If that happened, this could actually put the White Sox on the map to sign any guys who might be thrust into FA because of this scandal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 6 hours ago, Balta1701 said: Standard corporate fraud response. The higher ups have the organization pay a fine, they fire a few low level fraudsters and blame most of it on them. Or the Chris Correa situation with the Cardinals hacking the Astros’ database... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 10, 2018 Author Share Posted October 10, 2018 21 hours ago, southsider2k5 said: The last time this happened with the Braves, all of the teams that had cap space were able to sign guys under the normal rules. They did add an exception that teams could move the dollars forward into the next signing period if they desired. If that happened, this could actually put the White Sox on the map to sign any guys who might be thrust into FA because of this scandal. I do want to stress that a big difference here is that this is an FBI investigation and not an MLB investigation, that the MLB themselves may be under investigation, and so the "punishment" may very well be criminal charges or fines. The response to that would be systematic reform, I feel, not individual team punishment. For mlb to respond to this by releasing the guys from the dodgers contracts doesn't seem to match with the charges, to me at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, bmags said: I do want to stress that a big difference here is that this is an FBI investigation and not an MLB investigation, that the MLB themselves may be under investigation, and so the "punishment" may very well be criminal charges or fines. The response to that would be systematic reform, I feel, not individual team punishment. For mlb to respond to this by releasing the guys from the dodgers contracts doesn't seem to match with the charges, to me at least. I see zero chance that MLB doesn't pick up after the FBI, especially if criminal charges result here. In fact I am almost positive the Wilder stuff started after the FBI started looking into what was happening in Latin America. If the Dodgers have a list of 15 guys that have broken the law, there are 100% chances that they also broke baseball rules in that process. If these involved ways of signing players in Latin America that resulted by NOT following the rules, MLB has set the precident that they were going to release those players. They did it to both Boston and Atlanta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 10, 2018 Author Share Posted October 10, 2018 10 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: I see zero chance that MLB doesn't pick up after the FBI, especially if criminal charges result here. In fact I am almost positive the Wilder stuff started after the FBI started looking into what was happening in Latin America. If the Dodgers have a list of 15 guys that have broken the law, there are 100% chances that they also broke baseball rules in that process. If these involved ways of signing players in Latin America that resulted by NOT following the rules, MLB has set the precident that they were going to release those players. They did it to both Boston and Atlanta. It's not that I think you are wrong that mlb punishments won't follow, it's just I don't think the precedent you are citing will be what it looks like because MLB itself may have liability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 1 hour ago, bmags said: It's not that I think you are wrong that mlb punishments won't follow, it's just I don't think the precedent you are citing will be what it looks like because MLB itself may have liability. Meaning what? MLB conspired with the Dodgers to break laws? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 10, 2018 Author Share Posted October 10, 2018 24 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Meaning what? MLB conspired with the Dodgers to break laws? Could be, mlb could have a failure to report, could have communicated with the traffickers for players. The SI report indicates mlb itself is being investigated, it's unclear what for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, bmags said: Could be, mlb could have a failure to report, could have communicated with the traffickers for players. The SI report indicates mlb itself is being investigated, it's unclear what for. Yeah, I can't read into that as much as you are. The dossier given to the FBI suggests the extent to which some MLB personnel are aware of—and brazenly discuss—this unscrupulous culture and the potential for corruption. While both the league office and other teams are mentioned in the files obtained by SI, the Los Angeles Dodgers, a franchise with extensive scouting and development operations in the Caribbean, figure most prominently in the dossier: Sounds to me like they are aware stuff does happen down there, and they might even have an idea of non-specifics, but that sure doesn't sounds like they are involved in the actions themselves. They discuss the "culture" and "potential for corruption" not actual actions, and definitely not participating in those actions. That isn't said anywhere in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 I'm just going to mention that I have not heard one thing about this story living out in Socal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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