Sonny Gray

[Flash]

Cashman on record Yankees will seek to trade Sonny Gray. Return expectations wouldn't seem too high. Huge delta between his home vs. away splits suggest there might be change of scenery improvement potential. Wonder what it might take in trade for both Gray and Greg Bird, LH hitting 1B rendered redundant by Voit's performance. 

[Bob Sacamano]

I would be interested in Gray. Younger and more upside than Shields. Potential flip candidate.

[pcq]

Add Gio Gonzalez to the list. 

[ChiSoxJon]

It would have to be for pennies

[Flash]

Carson Fulmer and Kevan Smith ?? Maybe they throw in Kahnle if we include ???

[elrockinMT]

Let’s not get into this idea again of trading our prospects for a player on the downside of his career

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, elrockinMT said:

Let’s not get into this idea again of trading our prospects for a player on the downside of his career

Well Fulmer and Smith aren't going to be part of the future anyway so if the Yankees want them for Gray, fine with me.

[southsider2k5]

6 hours ago, Flash said:

Carson Fulmer and Kevan Smith ?? Maybe they throw in Kahnle if we include ???

I have to imagine SOMEONE would offer significantly more to the Yankees than this steaming pile.

[zisk]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

I have to imagine SOMEONE would offer significantly more to the Yankees than this steaming pile.

Fulmer does blow, but lots of teams would be happy to have Kevan Smith.

[daggins]

Kevan Smith is replacement level junk, no one wants him.

I have trouble lining up the Yankees and Sox for a Gray trade, but he'd be someone i'd like as a bounce-back guy.

Also pretty interested in Dylan Bundy, who probably will not continue to yield 2+ hr/9.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, zisk said:

Fulmer does blow, but lots of teams would be happy to have Kevan Smith.

Not the Yankees. 

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

Trade for Gray and sign Nate Eovaldi.

Rodon, Lopez, Eovaldi, Giolito, Gray. Boom.

[turnin' two]

In his last 3 years Gray has an ERA of 4.59 and a WHIP of 1.38

James Shields that last 2 years has an ERA of 4.78 and a WHIP of 1.36.

Miguel Gonzalez the last 3 years has an ERA of 4.54 and a WHIP of 1.38

Not sure why the Sox would trade Fulmer or Smith for that.  Why trade anything for that?  He is a retread quality pitcher at this point.  

 

Somewhat related to this is the note that the DBacks seem to want to trade Greinke.  He would be a much more interesting piece.  Obviously there are a few conditions, like paying no more that 15 million on any year in his contract (so the Dbacks would be kicking in like 20M per season -- seems unlikely).  I also wouldn't advocate trading all that much for him.  Maybe something like Steele Walker, Spencer Adams and all the Ryan Cordell they can handle.  I don't know.  I didn't really think about it, just spit balling... Not difficult to see the Dbacks getting a better offer than that for him though.  

Edited October 15, 2018 by turnin' two

[Lip Man 1]

35 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

In his last 3 years Gray has an ERA of 4.59 and a WHIP of 1.38

James Shields that last 2 years has an ERA of 4.78 and a WHIP of 1.36.

Miguel Gonzalez the last 3 years has an ERA of 4.54 and a WHIP of 1.38

Not sure why the Sox would trade Fulmer or Smith for that.  Why trade anything for that?  He is a retread quality pitcher at this point.  

 

Somewhat related to this is the note that the DBacks seem to want to trade Greinke.  He would be a much more interesting piece.  Obviously there are a few conditions, like paying no more that 15 million on any year in his contract (so the Dbacks would be kicking in like 20M per season -- seems unlikely).  I also wouldn't advocate trading all that much for him.  Maybe something like Steele Walker, Spencer Adams and all the Ryan Cordell they can handle.  I don't know.  I didn't really think about it, just spit balling... Not difficult to see the Dbacks getting a better offer than that for him though.  

Some talk Arizona may be interested in moving Goldschmidt.

[Balta1701]

Worth adding to this thread somewhere that Gray has 1 year of arb eligibility remaining before being a FA at the end of 2019, and he'll probably make something like $8 million next year as an arbitration payment. He only threw 130 innings last year for that money, with that ERA of nearly 5.

While I'm totally ok with taking him on as a warm body to fill the rotation spots, Fulmer and Smith is probably more than the Yankees should expect in return given that performance and price tag. If saving money is their goal, they can just non-tender him.

[WBWSF]

The Yankees can take both Fulmer and Giolito for Gray as far as I'm concerned. I can't imagine the Yankees wanting either one but if they wanted them both they can have them.

[Eminor3rd]

11 hours ago, turnin' two said:

In his last 3 years Gray has an ERA of 4.59 and a WHIP of 1.38

James Shields that last 2 years has an ERA of 4.78 and a WHIP of 1.36.

Miguel Gonzalez the last 3 years has an ERA of 4.54 and a WHIP of 1.38

Not sure why the Sox would trade Fulmer or Smith for that.  Why trade anything for that?  He is a retread quality pitcher at this point.  

 

Somewhat related to this is the note that the DBacks seem to want to trade Greinke.  He would be a much more interesting piece.  Obviously there are a few conditions, like paying no more that 15 million on any year in his contract (so the Dbacks would be kicking in like 20M per season -- seems unlikely).  I also wouldn't advocate trading all that much for him.  Maybe something like Steele Walker, Spencer Adams and all the Ryan Cordell they can handle.  I don't know.  I didn't really think about it, just spit balling... Not difficult to see the Dbacks getting a better offer than that for him though.  

That’s one way of organizing some data, yes. But another way would be to say that Gray is one year removed from a 3.55 ERA / 3.90 FIP season in which he put up nearly 3 wins in just 160 innings. 

Yes, there’s a good reason he’s on the chopping block, and you don’t want to give up a ton, but this is exactly the type of guy the Sox should be looking at. Bounce back guys that still have the stuff and can fill a much needed rotation spot can turn into gold a la Arrieta. One of the advantages of rebuilding is that we have innings to give the guy with nothing at stake. We are gonna have to nail a couple of these if we are going to end up like the Cubs/Astros. 

I wish he had more control remaining, but we could flip him or extend him if he gets good. We should be very involved in trying to pry him away at a modest price. 

[Flash]

17 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

That’s one way of organizing some data, yes. But another way would be to say that Gray is one year removed from a 3.55 ERA / 3.90 FIP season in which he put up nearly 3 wins in just 160 innings. 

Yes, there’s a good reason he’s on the chopping block, and you don’t want to give up a ton, but this is exactly the type of guy the Sox should be looking at. Bounce back guys that still have the stuff and can fill a much needed rotation spot can turn into gold a la Arrieta. One of the advantages of rebuilding is that we have innings to give the guy with nothing at stake. We are gonna have to nail a couple of these if we are going to end up like the Cubs/Astros. 

I wish he had more control remaining, but we could flip him or extend him if he gets good. We should be very involved in trying to pry him away at a modest price. 

100% this.

[bubba phillips]

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Worth adding to this thread somewhere that Gray has 1 year of arb eligibility remaining before being a FA at the end of 2019, and he'll probably make something like $8 million next year as an arbitration payment. He only threw 130 innings last year for that money, with that ERA of nearly 5.

While I'm totally ok with taking him on as a warm body to fill the rotation spots, Fulmer and Smith is probably more than the Yankees should expect in return given that performance and price tag. If saving money is their goal, they can just non-tender him.

I mentioned this on another thread.  Though his ERA of 4.90 is not good, the breakdown between home and road is very interesting.

At Yankee Stadium, with its Little League dimensions in right field, Gray's ERA was a whopping 6.98, with 11 HR's allowed in 59 innings.  On the road he was a different pitcher.  His ERA was 3.17 with only 3 dingers in 71 innings.  Maybe the pressure of New York and/or those short dimensions got in his head.

 

[Balta1701]

18 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

That’s one way of organizing some data, yes. But another way would be to say that Gray is one year removed from a 3.55 ERA / 3.90 FIP season in which he put up nearly 3 wins in just 160 innings. 

Yes, there’s a good reason he’s on the chopping block, and you don’t want to give up a ton, but this is exactly the type of guy the Sox should be looking at. Bounce back guys that still have the stuff and can fill a much needed rotation spot can turn into gold a la Arrieta. One of the advantages of rebuilding is that we have innings to give the guy with nothing at stake. We are gonna have to nail a couple of these if we are going to end up like the Cubs/Astros. 

I wish he had more control remaining, but we could flip him or extend him if he gets good. We should be very involved in trying to pry him away at a modest price. 

The part of that I dislike is the "Modest price" part. You remember how we acquired Soria and his 1 remaining year/$8 million contract for Jake Peter? That's the kind of "Modest Price" we should be talking about. Gray is on a 1 year contract for about $8 million and Soria in 2017 was about as useful as Gray was in 2018, his value should be pretty close to comparable, you look back a couple years before either of them look good. If we're going to move Smith and Fulmer...fine, because that's not really losing anything of value to us and it clears out a useful roster spot, but that's potentially more than Gray should be worth.

[Flash]

8 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The part of that I dislike is the "Modest price" part. You remember how we acquired Soria and his 1 remaining year/$8 million contract for Jake Peter? That's the kind of "Modest Price" we should be talking about. Gray is on a 1 year contract for about $8 million and Soria in 2017 was about as useful as Gray was in 2018, his value should be pretty close to comparable, you look back a couple years before either of them look good. If we're going to move Smith and Fulmer...fine, because that's not really losing anything of value to us and it clears out a useful roster spot, but that's potentially more than Gray should be worth.

My guess is we will all be surprised at what Gray brings in trade and it will be considerably more than the collective view of this board.

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, Flash said:

My guess is we will all be surprised at what Gray brings in trade and it will be considerably more than the collective view of this board.

This is how I look at it. 

Looking up his fangraphs numbers, he didn't lose velocity or have any other big redflags to say that his stuff is gone.  Gray would be far from the first guy who couldn't pitch in NYC.  Even his xFIP and FIP were 4.17 and 4.10, despite his ERA being 4.90.  I think more teams will be willing to take a chance on a soon to be 29 year old starter who than was a 33 year old reliever with the same basic contract prices.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

It will take a back-end top 100 guy for Gray.  And because of that, I will pass. 

[bmags]

13 minutes ago, cjgalloway said:

It will take a back-end top 100 guy for Gray.  And because of that, I will pass. 

We don't really know but Cashman has been incredible with trades so I don't think we should take the price for granted.

[Dick Allen]

They have basically said they are getting rid of him, and he has one year of control coming off a bad season. He won't cost much.  If he does, then pass.Do the Sox have any more Fernando Tatis offspring they can unload?

Edited October 15, 2018 by Dick Allen