Jose Abreu Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 52 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: I wouldn't want to trade Rutherford for Gray either. I wouldn't want to trade a real prospect for either Jon or Sonny Gray. This may be unpopular, but I'd do Rodon and either Gonzalez, Rutherford or Adolfo for Nick Senzel. I don't know if the Reds would though. I don't think Rodon alone is enough to grab Senzel. I think it might take Rodon and Rutherford, and I am 100% ok with that deal. Senzel is blocked by both Suarez and Gennett. I'd do that in a heartbeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said: I'd do that in a heartbeat. I would too, but it seems they're going to play him in a corner OF spot. As long as they have somewhere on the field to play him, he's going nowhere. It was a nice idea while it lasted. Edited October 26, 2018 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 10 minutes ago, daggins said: What on earth is going on here? The Rockies aren't trading Jon Gray for our junk drawer, and they certainly aren't shipping back prospects to boot. Why even do this exercise if you aren't going to bother with being realistic? I tend to agree. No idea how teams would value Narvaez though. It’s not very easy to find a controllable catcher who can hit like Omar did in 2018. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggins Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 9 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: I tend to agree. No idea how teams would value Narvaez though. It’s not very easy to find a controllable catcher who can hit like Omar did in 2018. Counterpoint - why trade him then? Especially for a SP with fewer years of control? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, daggins said: Counterpoint - why trade him then? Especially for a SP with fewer years of control? Because he sucks at framing and that is more important with a young pitching staff. If you want an offensive catcher and you're ok with him costing your pitching staff strikes, be my guest with Narvaez, but otherwise, his defense and receiving are bad enough to outweigh his offensive contributions, especially with a young staff. He's more valuable to another team than he is to the Sox. Narvaez is a weird player, and I don't know how any team would value him. Edited October 26, 2018 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggins Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 If he sucks at framing, why would other teams trade valuable pieces for him? Especially a team with a precarious pitching situation of their own? Also, it's not like the Sox are swimming in defensive wizards behind the plate. Smith is awful and Collins is almost certainly a 1B. Who takes his place? It seems like you're creating a giant hole to fill a smaller hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 9 minutes ago, daggins said: Counterpoint - why trade him then? Especially for a SP with fewer years of control? Cause I don’t believe he’s a legit 122 wRC+ hitter. I’m willing to sell high on Narvaez and roll the dice on Gray becoming a TOR starter once healthy again and out of Coors. Like I said, I have no idea how other front offices would value him. The Rockies did sign Ian Desmond to a big contract to play 1B, so nothing would really surprise me with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 (edited) I suppose Narvaez' framing is bad, but he's one of the few players on the 25, if not the org., that can take a walk. If his power ever comes (and it likely won't) he'd be a heck of a hitter. As it is, he's still one of the Sox best hitters. His D was positively rated by fangraphs; his framing may suck, but he can throw out runners. I don't see the reason to trade a guy like that for some marginal veteran. Even a guy like Leury - yes, he's a utility player. But he can play OF and IF - Sox don't have another one of those. And the list of crappy utility players Hahn and Williams have chased and paid serious money to over the last decade is long and ugly. Edited October 26, 2018 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggins Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 I'd say a pre-arb catcher who might be an above average hitter is more valuable to a team in the Sox position (that is, not competitive) than Jon Gray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 7 minutes ago, GreenSox said: I suppose Narvaez' framing is bad, but he's one of the few players on the 25, if not the org., that can take a walk. If his power ever comes (and it likely won't) he'd be a heck of a hitter. As it is, he's still one of the Sox best hitters. His D was positively rated by fangraphs; his framing may suck, but he can throw out runners. I don't see the reason to trade a guy like that for some marginal veteran. Even a guy like Leury - yes, he's a utility player. But he can play OF and IF - Sox don't have another one of those. And the list of crappy utility players Hahn and Williams have chased and paid serious money to over the last decade is long and ugly. I’m not sure how anyone could call Jon Gray a “marginal veteran”. He’s the same age as Narvaez and has significantly more upside. We’re talking about a former 3rd overall pick who has had very good peripherals in the majors. Get him out of Coors and he could easily be a stud. And I like Luery, but he’d a small price to pay to get an arm like Gray, especially when he only has two years of team control left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 4 minutes ago, daggins said: I'd say a pre-arb catcher who might be an above average hitter is more valuable to a team in the Sox position (that is, not competitive) than Jon Gray. I’m super interested in Jon Gray because I think he could potentially be a part of the long-term rotation (if willing to sign an extension at some point) or a tremendous flip candidate. Either way that’s a win for us assuming he does well next year. I just don’t believe Omar to be our long-term answer at catcher and would love to sell high on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 I can't believe how many people overvalue Narvaez on here. He had one decent season at the plate and is mediocre at best defensively. I'd trade him for Jon Gray in a heartbeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 2 minutes ago, Whitesox27 said: I can't believe how many people overvalue Narvaez on here. He had one decent season at the plate and is mediocre at best defensively. I'd trade him for Jon Gray in a heartbeat. To be fair, he’s had one great season at the plate and one good season. That doesn’t mean he’s a great catcher by any means (his defense leaves a lot to be desired), but offensively he’s held his own for the most part. Regardless, I fully agree that trading Narvaez for Gray would be a no-brainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 Where is all this insanity about Avisail Garcia for Jon Gray coming from? Did I miss a really weird rumor or something? Why on earth would the Rockies EVER consider this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 2 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said: Where is all this insanity about Avisail Garcia for Jon Gray coming from? Did I miss a really weird rumor or something? Why on earth would the Rockies EVER consider this? I think it’s just wishful thinking. I seriously doubt Avi has any trade value at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 1 hour ago, daggins said: If he sucks at framing, why would other teams trade valuable pieces for him? That's what I always wonder about posts. If he stinks he stinks and the Sox fans aren't the only ones to see that. People point out players deficiencies all the time on here, then act like we're going to be able to trade them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 6 hours ago, Whitesox27 said: Nick Castellanos is guy that hasn't been talked about a whole lot but would look in great in the Sox outfield. He isn't a free agent until after next season but he'll only be 28 on Opening Day 2020 and can flat out hit. Stealing him from the Tigers would be a plus as well. You just answered your own question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 Where do people get off thinking Jon Gray sucks and can be had for spare parts? In about 3 full seasons worth of starts (89 starts), he has a 10.3 fWAR. That's about 3.5 fWAR per year. That's firmly above average and borderline all-star quality. His ERA wasn't shiny and he gave up a lot of dingers this year, but his other peripherals have been great over his young career and he has an arm you can dream on. You'd literally have to give up Yolmer + Dunning + Burdi or something like that to get Gray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, Jose Abreu said: I'd do that in a heartbeat. Nick Senzel is someone I've been thinking about figuring out to acquire. Would you guys do Cease and Rutherford for Senzel? I would. Senzel is going to be rated over Cease by virtually all publications, but the gap shouldn't be that large. The Reds also just drafted Jonathan India, so they are kind of loaded at 3B right now, but India being a few years away helps delay the need to worry about Saurez blocking him. Senzel is going to be ready for the majors by June. And the Reds seem to be atrocious at developing pitching, so Cease would likely anchor their core rotation until Hunter Greene makes it up. Edited October 26, 2018 by ChiliIrishHammock24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 3 hours ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said: Nick Senzel is someone I've been thinking about figuring out to acquire. Would you guys do Cease and Rutherford for Senzel? I would. Senzel is going to be rated over Cease by virtually all publications, but the gap shouldn't be that large. The Reds also just drafted Jonathan India, so they are kind of loaded at 3B right now, but India being a few years away helps delay the need to worry about Saurez blocking him. Senzel is going to be ready for the majors by June. And the Reds seem to be atrocious at developing pitching, so Cease would likely anchor their core rotation until Hunter Greene makes it up. I don’t think we can afford to trade Cease right now given how murky our SP situation is at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 7 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: To be fair, he’s had one great season at the plate and one good season. That doesn’t mean he’s a great catcher by any means (his defense leaves a lot to be desired), but offensively he’s held his own for the most part. Regardless, I fully agree that trading Narvaez for Gray would be a no-brainer. Narvaez far exceeded my expectations this past season, but I still believe Collins is the future at the catching position for the Sox. Zavala could also be a factor as well. Part of me thinks holding onto Narvaez would be a good idea to see if 2018 wasn't a fluke, but my gut tells me that they should sell high on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 Signing one of Machado or Harper has to be priority...at least attempting to do so. I believe the Sox have a chance at either one, but I would think Machado is the preferred target. There was an article the other day about Harper wanting 10/$350 million as a starting point. Someone's going to pay that or more, and I don't think it'll be the Sox. Not because they can't afford him; they can. I believe for the same type of money, Machado fits the team's needs better. A signing of either guy would require lots of improvements elsewhere, specifically pitching. They're going to need another SP or two, and the bullpen needs help. I like some of the other ideas being floated here, and I'll need to do some more research to see who'd I'd like to see added. Hopefully it'll be an exciting off season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iWiN4PreP Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 Everybody in here seems to want Machado, but pleaseee give me Harper. I don't want to root for Machado, team needs or not. Give me BRYCE!!! I also love the idea of targeting Jon Gray and Nick Senzel (and also any other rockies prospect that is blocked). However, I'm not sure what I'd give up. It's one of those situations where if the price is low on Gray after a rough season, then buy him up. If it's still high, then pass unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 12 hours ago, Jose Abreu said: Finally, someone who gets that Jones' option for 2019 isn't for $4.5 million. You're already a step above the Sox beat writers and most bloggers -edit: it's actually less than the listed 1.25 too, it's for the league minimum which is about 540k You are not correct here. His option is still for $4.65 million. The nerve repositioning surgery that he had does not count as a UCL injury that would turn his option into a minimum salary. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: I don’t think we can afford to trade Cease right now given how murky our SP situation is at the moment. You also don't see any top prospect(s) for top prospect(s) trades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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