FA pitchers the Sox could target

[southsider2k5]

 

[Eminor3rd]

That list made me nauseous. 

[Balta1701]

7 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

That list made me nauseous. 

Which is exactly why it's so important to develop the guys we have. The only name missing from that list is basically Corbin, and he seems a very likely Yankee. 

[ChiSox59]

I still like Ryu, depending on price.  

[Balta1701]

5 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I still like Ryu, depending on price.  

If I had to pick, I'd bring back Shields and let the Yankees give me something nice for taking Gray's contract off their hands. 

[ChiSox59]

5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If I had to pick, I'd bring back Shields and let the Yankees give me something nice for taking Gray's contract off their hands. 

I'd prefer to try not to suck.  Just my opinion.  Gray, sure.  Hard no thanks on Shields from me, but wouldn't be shocked to see a reunion.  

[Lip Man 1]

If you are going to try to start reinforcing the rotation for 2020, 2021, then Keuchel. Short term? Sanchez or Gio. 

[Balta1701]

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

I'd prefer to try not to suck.  Just my opinion.  Gray, sure.  Hard no thanks on Shields from me, but wouldn't be shocked to see a reunion.  

You see a path to not sucking on that list?

[EvilJester99]

I'd go with Eovaldi or maybe Gio off that list.. or make a deal for Gray. 

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

If you are going to try to start reinforcing the rotation for 2020, 2021, then Keuchel. Short term? Sanchez or Gio. 

Do you think that Keuchel at age 32 and 33 really is going to be a good reinforcement for this rotation?

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

You see a path to not sucking on that list?

I think a rotation of Rodon, Lopez, Giolito, Gray (Jon or Sonny, preferably prefer Jon) and Ryu looks hell of a lot of better anything with Shields in it.  IMO, any resigning of Shields is going to indicate to me that the Sox are not going to attempt to field a team that has a shot of being competitive.  Which may be the direction they go, I am just setting my sights a bit higher for now.  

[Balta1701]

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

I think a rotation of Rodon, Lopez, Giolito, Gray (Jon or Sonny, preferably prefer Jon) and Ryu looks hell of a lot of better anything with Shields in it.  IMO, any resigning of Shields is going to indicate to me that the Sox are not going to attempt to field a team that has a shot of being competitive.  Which may be the direction they go, I am just setting my sights a bit higher for now.  

You didn't answer the question. Yes, that rotation looks better than one with Shields in it. Does it look like a path to not sucking? Because that still looks like a below average rotation to me unless the young guys break out into aces.

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

You didn't answer the question. Yes, that rotation looks better than one with Shields in it. Does it look like a path to not sucking? Because that still looks like a below average rotation to me unless the young guys break out into aces.

I did answer the question.  I think there is a path that allows for a competitive team if things go right.  That path does not include a 37 year old James Shields who has absolutely zero upside. 

Do I think there is a realistic way to turn this rotation into well above average playoff caliber rotation heading into next season?  No.  But I do think its possible to at least create a rotation that if the young guys take a step forward, it has a chance to produce a team capable of playing winning baseball.

[Balta1701]

13 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I did answer the question.  I think there is a path that allows for a competitive team if things go right.  That path does not include a 37 year old James Shields who has absolutely zero upside. 

Do I think there is a realistic way to turn this rotation into well above average playoff caliber rotation heading into next season?  No.  But I do think its possible to at least create a rotation that if the young guys take a step forward, it has a chance to produce a team capable of playing winning baseball.

This team has a young and weak bullpen, they scored 220 fewer runs than the Red Sox, their defense rated 5th worst in baseball by DRS, and adding Eloy helps but doesn't nearly fix all that. So, if your rotation isn't a "well above average playoff caliber rotation", your team is on a path to sucking. 

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

Eovaldi would have been great but he will be way too expensive. Either of the Gray's and Shields is fine, Cease will replace Shields at some point next season anyway.

[Lip Man 1]

33 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Do you think that Keuchel at age 32 and 33 really is going to be a good reinforcement for this rotation?

Balta: Given the fact that most athletes keep themselves in the best physical condition possible, I don't automatically assume that guys all "fall off the cliff" as soon as they hit early 30's. Nelson Cruz for example has hit more home runs than anybody the past four years and he's about to turn, I think, 37.

My point is, depending on the price, there are times you need to take a risk. Given his success and his post season experience (assuming the Sox are actually in a position to make the post season in a few years), he is worth the gamble to me.

Look if this organization can take a chance on a broken down stiff like James Shields, they can probably afford to take a shot on a guy who at least he's shown better performance.

Just my opinion.

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Balta: Given the fact that most athletes keep themselves in the best physical condition possible, I don't automatically assume that guys all "fall off the cliff" as soon as they hit early 30's. Nelson Cruz for example has hit more home runs than anybody the past four years and he's about to turn, I think, 37.

My point is, depending on the price, there are times you need to take a risk. Given his success and his post season experience (assuming the Sox are actually in a position to make the post season in a few years), he is worth the gamble to me.

Look if this organization can take a chance on a broken down stiff like James Shields, they can probably afford to take a shot on a guy who at least he's shown better performance.

Just my opinion.

I will change my tune on guys like this if and when I think this team is ready to compete, but I see no reason to spend money on a guy in 2019 unless they're someone like Machado or Harper that simply won't be available after 2019. If we're still after pitching after 2019 (and frankly,  that means we had one of those guys completely flop, which makes competing harder), then I'd rather have more money available when someone like Sale hits free agency.

[Eminor3rd]

I worry especially about Keuchel because he already sits in the low 90s and is heavily contact reliant. I guess that might mean that he’s already good at pitching to contact and can get by with diminished stuff, but I can also see it mean that when he throws 88 and loses some bite on the breaking stuff that he will just be relentlessly shelled. 

[ChiSox59]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

This team has a young and weak bullpen, they scored 220 fewer runs than the Red Sox, their defense rated 5th worst in baseball by DRS, and adding Eloy helps but doesn't nearly fix all that. So, if your rotation isn't a "well above average playoff caliber rotation", your team is on a path to sucking. 

The White Sox don't need to be the Red Sox in order to play winning baseball.  

[bmags]

However, I really worry that another year trotting out garbage will adversely effect development. I'd much rather have a veteran presence who can perform, and who pushes others to match it, than this 6 pitchers with a 5+ ERA all just saying "well he's having issues too". 

You can't measure it, but I don't like idea of bookending garbage pitchers around the young guys.

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

The White Sox don't need to be the Red Sox in order to play winning baseball.  

No but they better be "Well above average" at something and I have no idea what that could be.

[ChiSox59]

Just now, Balta1701 said:

No but they better be "Well above average" at something and I have no idea what that could be.

Not throwing James Shields out there every 5th day is a step in the right direction.  Improving on an offensive black hole in 3B and CF is a step in the right direction.  A full season of Rodon and step forward from Giolito and Lopez is step in the right direction.  I project improvement from Moncada and Timmy.  The bullpen is young and inexperienced, but the Sox have an organization loaded with high potential back end of the bullpen arms.  I think the bullpen will be much better, and will improve as the season wears on.    

So no, adding Eloy doesn't fix everything.  But I also don't expect the rest of the team to look the same.  If they trot out basically the same team as last year like you seemingly want, and no one improves, yah, they're going to suck again.  Like I said earlier - I am setting my sights a tad higher and hoping the Sox share those sights.  I'd prefer not to get behind the "Sox are the worst organization ever and there is nothing they will ever do to improve this team" narrative you often push.  

[Balta1701]

28 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Not throwing James Shields out there every 5th day is a step in the right direction.  Improving on an offensive black hole in 3B and CF is a step in the right direction.  A full season of Rodon and step forward from Giolito and Lopez is step in the right direction.  I project improvement from Moncada and Timmy.  The bullpen is young and inexperienced, but the Sox have an organization loaded with high potential back end of the bullpen arms.  I think the bullpen will be much better, and will improve as the season wears on.    

So no, adding Eloy doesn't fix everything.  But I also don't expect the rest of the team to look the same.  If they trot out basically the same team as last year like you seemingly want, and no one improves, yah, they're going to suck again.  Like I said earlier - I am setting my sights a tad higher and hoping the Sox share those sights.  I'd prefer not to get behind the "Sox are the worst organization ever and there is nothing they will ever do to improve this team" narrative you often push.  

So you're assuming that every player on the roster takes a step in the right direction? There's one problem. 

My first rule of thumb is "First do no harm" in 2019. That means - play the kids every day, bench them if needed, rest them if needed, but don't be aggressive with them because you need to win a game. Don't trade away talent this offseason to get better. Don't sign guys who might cost a draft pick. Don't sign guys who might even potentially block the spot of someone we might need in 2020 (that counts the entire starting rotation). Don't sign guys that cost us substantial resources or money that could be spent going into 2020. Stay the course, we've done the job so far, now don't take detours just to win 75 games instead of 70 next year.

[southsider2k5]

Just going to say that pretty much everyone on this list is a level or two above where I think the Sox actually shop for pitching this off season.

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

My first rule of thumb is "First do no harm" in 2019. That means - play the kids every day, bench them if needed, rest them if needed, but don't be aggressive with them because you need to win a game. Don't trade away talent this offseason to get better. Don't sign guys who might cost a draft pick. Don't sign guys who might even potentially block the spot of someone we might need in 2020 (that counts the entire starting rotation). Don't sign guys that cost us substantial resources or money that could be spent going into 2020. Stay the course, we've done the job so far, now don't take detours just to win 75 games instead of 70 next year.

I think thats a totally fair opinion to have.  I've never suggested the Sox trade legitimate prospects to get better next season (other than prospect for prospect trades).  I don't want the Sox signing meh veterans to long term deals that will hamstring them later either.  But I also think the young guys on this team need to start to experience what it is like to win a little bit.  I don't think trotting basically the same roster as last year out there is going to be much of a benefit.

And, for the record, I didn't assume every player on the roster takes a step forward. I mentioned Giolito, Timmy, and Moncada, and Lopez.  That is 16% of the roster. Not the whole roster.  I think each of those SHOULD be expected to take a step forward next season - it'd be hard for Giolito and Moncada not to.