steveno89 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said: By not being pressured, they mean it's such a no brainer he will just overpay without second thought. So no pressure will be necessary. I read "Not being pressured" as in this is not an all or nothing scenario. Sox will try, but will not sign Harper/Machado at all costs necessarily should the bidding get out of control. Of course I want star players as a fan, but I really am leery about how often mega contracts can backfire on a team. That being said, this rebuild will not be successful relying solely on home grown talent. Eventually we need to flat out pay to bring in more pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sockin Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 8 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said: It is free agency, if you are going for Machado and Harper, you are fundamentally going to overpay and need to be okay with that. An alternative view is to shell out big money but over shorter-term deals for guys who languish a bit longer on the FA market. You know some won't pan out but you hit on a few and than in another year or two you dabble in the deep-end. This is the problem I have. What other 26 year old superstars are going to be available in a year or two? The Rockies are already trying to lock up Arenado so thats not a given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 4 minutes ago, steveno89 said: I read "Not being pressured" as in this is not an all or nothing scenario. Sox will try, but will not sign Harper/Machado at all costs necessarily should the bidding get out of control. Of course I want star players as a fan, but I really am leery about how often mega contracts can backfire on a team. That being said, this rebuild will not be successful relying solely on home grown talent. Eventually we need to flat out pay to bring in more pieces. And to get the top guys, you have to assume the contract will eventually be a little ugly, which means you probably have to overpay. If the White Sox aren't willing to do that, another team will, and if no team is willing to do that, the White Sox record, holes, and lack of any recent success will make them a destination to avoid when other options are available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 39 minutes ago, Steve9347 said: You guys are fucking crazy if you think the White Sox are getting Bryce Harper. The White Sox are not a team that anyone wants to come to unless they double the next-best offer. Double the best offer? Lol, c'mon. This talk is lunacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southwest Sider Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 I dare to dream. Nothing about the last couple of years has been status quo. The White Sox have deliberately shed payroll in order to be ready for this offseason in particular. Term and dollars should not be an obstacle. Indeed, the timing of the first opt-out and the players willingness to play here will be the primary obstacles. I have no doubt that the Sox have created the best strategy they can to sell their team to Bryce or Manny. Whether it works or not remains to be seen. Hopefully we can secure an opt-out after year 5. A significantly front loaded contract could be more appealing with a 5 year opt out instead of a team that offers a 3 or 4 year opt out. Rick Hahn is a great negotiator, I have faith that if he's getting close to the finish line, he will find a way to seal the deal. More importantly, I don't think the White Sox would have went this far just to come up a little short in the bidding war and then cry poor. While KW is indeed still a figure in this organization, I think he's fully onboard with this new strategy. Additionally, the 'crying poor' usually happened when the Sox already had a somewhat robust payroll, relatively speaking. Not the minuscule payroll the Sox are currently enjoying. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted November 7, 2018 Author Share Posted November 7, 2018 29 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Double the best offer? Lol, c'mon. This talk is lunacy. I love the people who come in this thread with the "I'm smarter than all of you who have actually been paying attention to what the Sox have been doing" approach and then end up saying something that just makes them sound ridiculous 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 Lost in the Harper/Manny rumors is that it really seems like the Sox are going to cash in some prospects for controllable player(s) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 Just now, fathom said: Lost in the Harper/Manny rumors is that it really seems like the Sox are going to cash in some prospects for controllable player(s) I'd be surprised if the Sox traded meaningful prospects this offseason unless it was a prospect for prospect type deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 31 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: I'd be surprised if the Sox traded meaningful prospects this offseason unless it was a prospect for prospect type deal. I tend to agree, although I think they might be willing to trade prospects for a buy-low type (for example Jon Gray). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: I tend to agree, although I think they might be willing to trade prospects for a buy-low type (for example Jon Gray). Gray should have a lot of suitors. Dude was a fantasy mystery last year. Good k numbers but I never added him because I was always scared of his era. He'll bounce back with any team. Edited November 7, 2018 by soxfan2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 (edited) I had previously asked how the money which would likely be required to acquire both Machado and Harper, might be better spent, if allocated over 4, or 5 lesser free agents. Several of you responded and I appreciate the thoughtful suggestions. What about a compromise, consisting of one of Harper, or Machado and 2 or 3 lesser free agents? Next year's roster will almost certainly lack the pitching needed to compete. However, a couple of starters and a closer could significantly improve those prospects. Perhaps a couple of veterans, to fill the #2 and a #4 rotation slots, or a #1 and a #5. Adding Corbin, Kimbrel and someone like Shields, along with Harper, or Machado could give the Sox a shot, in the Central, especially if the Indians trade Kluber. Some of these acquisitions have been suggested here, in various posts, but what do you think of such an overall strategy? A 2019 starting rotation of Rodon, Corbin, Lopez, Giolito and Shields, with Cease in the wings, could be adequate to formidable, depending particularly which version of Lucas we get. The offense could be very potent, if they retained Avi and Abreu, with the new additions of Eloy and one of Harper, or Machado. Edited November 7, 2018 by Lillian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35thstreetswarm Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Lillian said: I had previously asked how the money which would likely be required to acquire both Machado and Harper, might be better spent, if allocated over 4, or 5 lesser free agents. Several of you responded and I appreciate the thoughtful suggestions. What about a compromise, consisting of one of Harper, or Machado and 2 or 3 lesser free agents? Next year's roster will almost certainly lack the pitching needed to compete. However, a couple of starters and a closer could significantly improve those prospects. Perhaps a couple of veterans, to fill the #2 and a #4 rotation slots, or a #1 and a #5. Adding Corbin, Kimbrel and someone like Shields, along with Harper, or Machado could give the Sox a shot, in the Central, especially if the Indians trade Kluber. Some of these acquisitions have been suggested here, in various posts, but what do you think of such an overall strategy? A 2019 starting rotation of Rodon, Corbin, Lopez, Giolito and Shields, with Cease in the wings, could be adequate to formidable, depending particularly which version of Lucas we get. The offense could be very potent, if they retained Avi and Abreu, with the new additions of Eloy and one of Harper, or Machado. I think that's more realistic, but not a better option all else being equal. While it may not be likely or even plausible, I think Machado plus Harper makes far more impact than what we could cobble together using other lesser free agents. Sorry, I now realize I misread your post before (which I thought was implying the point I am making here.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Lillian said: I had previously asked how the money which would likely be required to acquire both Machado and Harper, might be better spent, if allocated over 4, or 5 lesser free agents. Several of you responded and I appreciate the thoughtful suggestions. What about a compromise, consisting of one of Harper, or Machado and 2 or 3 lesser free agents? Next year's roster will almost certainly lack the pitching needed to compete. However, a couple of starters and a closer could significantly improve those prospects. Perhaps a couple of veterans, to fill the #2 and a #4 rotation slots, or a #1 and a #5. Adding Corbin, Kimbrel and someone like Shields, along with Harper, or Machado could give the Sox a shot, in the Central, especially if the Indians trade Kluber. Some of these acquisitions have been suggested here, in various posts, but what do you think of such an overall strategy? A 2019 starting rotation of Rodon, Corbin, Lopez, Giolito and Shields, with Cease in the wings, could be adequate to formidable, depending particularly which version of Lucas we get. The offense could be very potent, if they retained Avi and Abreu, with the new additions of Eloy and one of Harper, or Machado. But is that team really any better than the pre-rebuild Sox? Maybe? It’s arguable. The only reason Machado/Harper even make sense for us is because of their nigh unprecedented youth and upside, such that they can be expected to remain at peak performance for years to come. Otherwise, we shouldn’t dip into the free agent market at all other than to buy guys that fell through the market. This team still needs a TON of talent to emerge to even be considered a real competitor. To do that, we have to give ABs to kids to let them learn, and spend as gratuitiouy as possible on adding more long term talent to the development pipeline. To push in on good-not-great 31-year old pitchers with short shelf lives is akin to the Melky Cabrera/Jeff Keppinger Mired in Mediocrity(tm) strategy that got us all here in the first place. It hurts to watch this. But we are two years in now and two years closer to the promised land. Stay the course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iWiN4PreP Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Lillian said: I had previously asked how the money which would likely be required to acquire both Machado and Harper, might be better spent, if allocated over 4, or 5 lesser free agents. Several of you responded and I appreciate the thoughtful suggestions. What about a compromise, consisting of one of Harper, or Machado and 2 or 3 lesser free agents? Next year's roster will almost certainly lack the pitching needed to compete. However, a couple of starters and a closer could significantly improve those prospects. Perhaps a couple of veterans, to fill the #2 and a #4 rotation slots, or a #1 and a #5. Adding Corbin, Kimbrel and someone like Shields, along with Harper, or Machado could give the Sox a shot, in the Central, especially if the Indians trade Kluber. Some of these acquisitions have been suggested here, in various posts, but what do you think of such an overall strategy? A 2019 starting rotation of Rodon, Corbin, Lopez, Giolito and Shields, with Cease in the wings, could be adequate to formidable, depending particularly which version of Lucas we get. The offense could be very potent, if they retained Avi and Abreu, with the new additions of Eloy and one of Harper, or Machado. I think the best option is Machado + Harper together. Not necessairly for this year... but for the next and following. If that's not on the table, then one of them + a handful of replacement players could work. While I like Corbin, I think his $$$ is going to be a problem. I'd prefer something like Machado + Cruz + Ja Happ / The Japanese player + 2 of the relievers on the market (note: Not kimbrel, too expensive and likely to implode). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 8 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said: I think that's more realistic, but not a better option all else being equal. While it may not be likely or even plausible, I think Machado plus Harper makes far more impact than what we could cobble together using other lesser free agents. Sorry, I now realize I misread your post before (which I thought was implying the point I am making here.) Your suggestion could be feasible, as long as both Machado and Harper could be convinced to patiently wait a year, or two, to compete. That assertion is based upon the realization that there would likely not be sufficient funds remaining, to address the pitching. A starting rotation of Rodon, Lopez, Giolito, Covey and whomever can be acquired, with the modest amount of remaining money, is not likely to be adequate to compete in 2019. When Kopech and Cease are ready to join the rotation, they might be ok, but probably not this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 1 minute ago, iWiN4PreP said: I think the best option is Machado + Harper together. Not necessairly for this year... but for the next and following. If that's not on the table, then one of them + a handful of replacement players could work. While I like Corbin, I think his $$$ is going to be a problem. I'd prefer something like Machado + Cruz + Ja Happ / The Japanese player + 2 of the relievers on the market (note: Not kimbrel, too expensive and likely to implode). This is probably what I would aim for. If Harper instead of Machado, then Donaldson instead of Cruz. In both scenarios, you'd have to think Avi is gone as Palka receives his most playing time in RF or DH depending on the scenario. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iWiN4PreP Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 11 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said: This is probably what I would aim for. If Harper instead of Machado, then Donaldson instead of Cruz. In both scenarios, you'd have to think Avi is gone as Palka receives his most playing time in RF or DH depending on the scenario. Yup, I think those 2 scenarios are the "aim" of the offseason for the White Sox. It offers a lot of potential now and for the future. I also think the W'Sox are serious about both of them, I mean, if you can get both of them you just do it and don't worry about the rest of the roster reconstruction. These 2 players are dynamic generational talents entering their primes and immediately turn the Sox into a sensation. My mouth waters just thinking about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 16 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said: I think the best option is Machado + Harper together. Not necessairly for this year... but for the next and following. If that's not on the table, then one of them + a handful of replacement players could work. While I like Corbin, I think his $$$ is going to be a problem. I'd prefer something like Machado + Cruz + Ja Happ / The Japanese player + 2 of the relievers on the market (note: Not kimbrel, too expensive and likely to implode). I don't know what to make of signing Cruz, who will turn 39 next summer, to a deal. He's still productive, but at that age I'm just not sure how much is left in the tank? He would be a 1-2 year play at best, and I'm not sure we have enough other talent to compete in that short of a window. Happ is solid, but also on the wrong side of 36...regression frightens me there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 There is a 39 year old I would love to see on the white sox and it's not nelson cruz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, bmags said: There is a 39 year old I would love to see on the white sox and it's not nelson cruz In this year's free agency? Edit: I'm guessing you are referring to Adrian Beltre? Edited November 7, 2018 by soxfan2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 Eliminate the Yankees as a destination for Harper. Buster Olney says it's not going to happen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, soxfan49 said: Eliminate the Yankees as a destination for Harper. Buster Olney says it's not going to happen. Personally, I never expected them to be interested, unless they moved Stanton. Though I guess they could rotate Judge, Stanton and Harper between LF, RF, and DH. Edited November 7, 2018 by soxfan2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 4 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said: In this year's free agency? Edit: I'm guessing you are referring to Adrian Beltre? I love adrian beltre. I also think he would be such a good mentor for TA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 Just now, bmags said: I love adrian beltre. I also think he would be such a good mentor for TA. Yeah. I just feel like it's either Texas or retirement for him. Or to a team he might be able to win a ring with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 1 minute ago, soxfan2014 said: Yeah. I just feel like it's either Texas or retirement for him. Or to a team he might be able to win a ring with. It makes no sense for him to come here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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