TheFutureIsNear Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 (edited) Am I the only 1 that feels uneasy about this? It seems like Hahn almost has a blank check that will greatly impact the future of this team. Obviously we have no control, but should we ok with that? Not only do I not trust his decision making on acquiring veteran talent, but is it not a conflict of interest for a GM who’s job is semi on the line to sign free agents while we are still in a rebuild? Curious about opinions on this as every one seems pretty all in. Edited November 9, 2018 by TheFutureIsNear 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 I’ll take, “English as a second language” for $200... Alex. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFutureIsNear Posted November 9, 2018 Author Share Posted November 9, 2018 Just now, hi8is said: I’ll take, “English as a second language” for $200... Alex. Posting on my phone and accidentally hit enter in the middle of editing 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Even if Hahn spends money and the return isn't as great as it should be, these moves will be in addition to our great prospects. That's why I want to give Harper or Machado a fifth year opt out while front loading their contracts. If it isn't working, they would probably opt out, and if it is working, we would be in a great position to re-sign them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 I'd rather they signed these types of players as opposed to trading for them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFutureIsNear Posted November 9, 2018 Author Share Posted November 9, 2018 14 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said: Even if Hahn spends money and the return isn't as great as it should be, these moves will be in addition to our great prospects. That's why I want to give Harper or Machado a fifth year opt out while front loading their contracts. If it isn't working, they would probably opt out, and if it is working, we would be in a great position to re-sign them. My fear is they don’t get Harper/Machado and end up with something like Brantley, Happ, and someone else all on multi year deals. Essentially tying up too much payroll in veterans for the next 2-3 years that still won’t make us playoff contenders. If he lands 1 of Harper/Machado then sure, go for it. But I don’t want to see us tie up payroll and go back to that middling 80-85 win team while we are still trying to develop prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 (edited) The only thing they really have to lose at this point is future flexibility. So Harper, Machado, that would be good. A few of the other names mentioned I would question unless they were required to land the big fish. I don't see the point of a 38 year old DH or a 9 figure starter who doesn't have a track record of success if 2019 is another throwaway year. On the other hand, another 100 loss season would probably really hurt this team, so something needs to be done. If now it is time to start winning, I wonder if they were watching what I was watching. Edited November 9, 2018 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Why would you feel uneasy if Sox are active in FA market? All of the guys Sox are interested in present an upgrade over current situation. This isn’t us looking to sign an aging DH with huge K issues to a 4 year deal. If your argument is you don’t trust Hahn as a GM then you need to re-title the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 I'm terrified. Hahn hasn't proven he knows what he's doing and it appears he's being handed a blank check. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 7 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said: My fear is they don’t get Harper/Machado and end up with something like Brantley, Happ, and someone else all on multi year deals. Essentially tying up too much payroll in veterans for the next 2-3 years that still won’t make us playoff contenders. If he lands 1 of Harper/Machado then sure, go for it. But I don’t want to see us tie up payroll and go back to that middling 80-85 win team while we are still trying to develop prospects. Those guys contracts won't be back breakers though. Brantley is a good player who would help us a lot for 3 years and Happ would be here for 2 two years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 6 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said: Why would you feel uneasy if Sox are active in FA market? All of the guys Sox are interested in present an upgrade over current situation. This isn’t us looking to sign an aging DH with huge K issues to a 4 year deal. If your argument is you don’t trust Hahn as a GM then you need to re-title the thread. I'd just like to point out that his first year with us Adam Dunn had 177 Ks and was awful and in 2015 Nelson Cruz maxed out at 164 Ks Anyway...yeah I have no confidence that RH won't screw this up. But...right now aside from Eloy I don't have confidence in the guys that Rick Hahn has traded for, and until someone earn's that...if he screws up free agency, then oh well the White Sox are terrible until he's gone, but there's a nonzero chance that's already true. So just run with it. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joejoedairy Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 9 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said: My fear is they don’t get Harper/Machado and end up with something like Brantley, Happ, and someone else all on multi year deals. Essentially tying up too much payroll in veterans for the next 2-3 years that still won’t make us playoff contenders. If he lands 1 of Harper/Machado then sure, go for it. But I don’t want to see us tie up payroll and go back to that middling 80-85 win team while we are still trying to develop prospects. Having an 80-85 win team with a bunch of talented, high end developing prospects seems like a great place to be. I can understand a bit of trepidation with free agent signings given Hahn's history though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said: Those guys contracts won't be back breakers though. Brantley is a good player who would help us a lot for 3 years and Happ would be here for 2 two years. Yep - even if we miss out on Machado and Harper - using that money to sign 3-4 impact players between now and 2020 will put us in a position to compete. Our window is starting 2020, if not earlier. You have to sign players if you see the right fit. You would have thought Oakland and Tampa wasn’t ready to compete but look at what they have done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 39 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said: Am I the only 1 that feels uneasy about this? It seems like Hahn almost has a blank check that will greatly impact the future of this team. Obviously we have no control, but should we ok with that? Not only do I not trust his decision making on acquiring veteran talent, but is it not a conflict of interest for a GM who’s job is semi on the line to sign free agents while we are still in a rebuild? Curious about opinions on this as every one seems pretty all in. Ummm, no. That is quite literally his job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 One thing I want to say about big contracts: - Over the last 5 or so years there have been so many contracts that I"ve heard were "unmovable" that were then easily moved. While the whole salary rarely moves, enough of it does that teams can get out of hell. Even prince fielder. - Teams still get pretty good returns on those players anyway. - If the sox were truly horrible, manny and harper would almost certainly waive a no trade clause to leave. This will not be an adam jones situation. So, it's not this monster signing that will screw up sox. It's if they continue to fail at player development, talent accumulation, and scouting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I'd just like to point out that his first year with us Adam Dunn had 177 Ks and was awful and in 2015 Nelson Cruz maxed out at 164 Ks Anyway...yeah I have no confidence that RH won't screw this up. But...right now aside from Eloy I don't have confidence in the guys that Rick Hahn has traded for, and until someone earn's that...if he screws up free agency, then oh well the White Sox are terrible until he's gone, but there's a nonzero chance that's already true. So just run with it. I will leave the Hahn evaluation for a separate argument. But expecting him to hit on all prospects is unrealistic, and it’s even more foolish to blame him for the Kopech, Hansen, and Dunning injuries like some dude posted above you did. Anyways, at a time when Cubs are seemingly coming back down to earth, going after franchise changing superstars is absolutely the right thin to do. I applaud the Sox for at least giving a serious pitch to Harper/Manny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vote4Pedro Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 (edited) The only thing uneasy I am feeling is about the realistic chance of getting a Harper....I think that it’s awesome the Whitesox are laying everything out there on the table to get him, just highly doubt it happens and we end up with our number 4-5 choice kinda like what happened to the Bulls when they tried to go big, I know I know different sport but same ownership. Just bracing for the let down that’s all Edited November 9, 2018 by beckham15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 16 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said: I will leave the Hahn evaluation for a separate argument. But expecting him to hit on all prospects is unrealistic, and it’s even more foolish to blame him for the Kopech, Hansen, and Dunning injuries like some dude posted above you did. Anyways, at a time when Cubs are seemingly coming back down to earth, going after franchise changing superstars is absolutely the right thin to do. I applaud the Sox for at least giving a serious pitch to Harper/Manny. Oh yeah going for Harper and Manny are fine. I totally encourage that. I'm expecting a list like what we came up with in 2015 though, 3 or 4 overpriced guys including an older DH and a starting pitcher who will, overall, disappoint and not produce nearly as much as people hope...which conveniently is what every thread here other than the Harper and Machado threads sounds like. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 19 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Oh yeah going for Harper and Manny are fine. I totally encourage that. I'm expecting a list like what we came up with in 2015 though, 3 or 4 overpriced guys including an older DH and a starting pitcher who will, overall, disappoint and not produce nearly as much as people hope... I agree...and if they do, that it sets back the rebuild and a tacit admission by the FO that the rebuild didn't work or at least they have no faith. I think .500 is about the best this FO is capable of; they are just over-matched in resources, skill, etc. IF JR is really going to spend for Machado and Harper (they'll need both) then that would compensate a good bit for other weaknesss. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southwest Sider Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 If the Sox sign Bryce Harper and Bryce Harper doesn't live up to expectations (assuming good health), it will be Bryce Harper's fault, not Rick Hahn's. This isn't really a case where bad free agent scouting can be your downfall. These guys are elite MLB free agents, potential Hall of Famers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 The correct answer is anytime RH and KW are selecting baseball talent, every White Sox fan should be skeptical. Maybe they will get it right. Recent history suggests otherwise. We will soon see if the dynamic has changed or it's more of the same. Suddenly thinking they are now contenders would make me wonder why they didn't think the same thing when they started this rebuild. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 29 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: The correct answer is anytime RH and KW are selecting baseball talent, every White Sox fan should be skeptical. Maybe they will get it right. Recent history suggests otherwise. We will soon see if the dynamic has changed or it's more of the same. Suddenly thinking they are now contenders would make me wonder why they didn't think the same thing when they started this rebuild. I think Cleveland is making them think. They have a lot of young talent and enough money to spend to compete against a Cleveland team in danger of winning 86 games or less. They were gonna spend big next year to compete in 2020, so they may say why not do it now while good players are available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 46 minutes ago, GreenSox said: I agree...and if they do, that it sets back the rebuild and a tacit admission by the FO that the rebuild didn't work or at least they have no faith. I think .500 is about the best this FO is capable of; they are just over-matched in resources, skill, etc. IF JR is really going to spend for Machado and Harper (they'll need both) then that would compensate a good bit for other weaknesss. How does this set the rebuild back? We still have young talent coming up so it isn't FA or bust. At some point we will have to spend on FA's to compliment our youth. Better to do it now in a strong class than wait to spend for a class with a bunch of junk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 2 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said: I'm terrified. Hahn hasn't proven he knows what he's doing and it appears he's being handed a blank check. I don't think any of us can roll our eyes enough for this post. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 43 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said: How does this set the rebuild back? We still have young talent coming up so it isn't FA or bust. At some point we will have to spend on FA's to compliment our youth. Better to do it now in a strong class than wait to spend for a class with a bunch of junk. Yea I'm excited about this off season.I was brimming with optimism when Kopech came up and like most others that optimism was crushed when he got hurt, After the season ended I started suggesting the Sox start making some positive moves this off season and was repeatedly told " no stay the course" by the more organizational supporters here. Good baseball talks don't get me wrong and no animosity, I feel somewhat vindicated hearing all these rumors and think there is a slim chance the Sox can be highly competitive in 2019 IF everything goes right this off season. Adding Machado or Harper early would be a giant 1st step in the right direction. Unlikely yes but I'm sure not terrified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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