caulfield12 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 Uh-oh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominikk85 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 (edited) On 11/10/2018 at 4:30 PM, bmags said: Really? His free agent record is terrible. I don’t care if LaRoche and Cabrera were market value, he gave market to bad players. La Roche came off a 127 wrc+ season with a 277 average and 26 homers. He was old but there was reason to believe he could have been like an average first baseman for another year. Nobody could have foreseen that he tanked that much. It was some risk but for the money it was an ok gamble at the time. Edited November 12, 2018 by dominik-keul@gmx.de Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarava Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 There's definitely reasons to be skeptical of Rick Hahn spending in free agency. But we have no choice here. All we can do is support him and hope he does well. And to be fair, his past failures also came with one hand tied behind his back. If the payroll is indeed unleashed now, as it seemingly wasn't in the past, then maybe now we'll get to see what he is really made of. The important thing here is to set your targets. And if you miss on the targets, that doesn't mean you go running in any direction to spend the money. Save it for next winter if the Machado's and other prime targets choose other destinations. And it does concern me what it might take to get a Manny Machado to sign here. For instance - if the Yankees offer Manny $330 mil and the Sox offered him $350, I'd guess he would sign with the Yankees. My fear is the Sox will have to blow all other offers out of the water to get him here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 2 hours ago, Sarava said: There's definitely reasons to be skeptical of Rick Hahn spending in free agency. But we have no choice here. All we can do is support him and hope he does well. And to be fair, his past failures also came with one hand tied behind his back. If the payroll is indeed unleashed now, as it seemingly wasn't in the past, then maybe now we'll get to see what he is really made of. The important thing here is to set your targets. And if you miss on the targets, that doesn't mean you go running in any direction to spend the money. Save it for next winter if the Machado's and other prime targets choose other destinations. And it does concern me what it might take to get a Manny Machado to sign here. For instance - if the Yankees offer Manny $330 mil and the Sox offered him $350, I'd guess he would sign with the Yankees. My fear is the Sox will have to blow all other offers out of the water to get him here. I believe the White Sox could offer the exact same total dollars, AAV, and opt outs as the Yankees and still present the more attractive option. Let's use your $330 million example, and assume a 10 year contract with opt outs after years 3, 6, and 7. If these are the offers: Yankees: 33-33-33-/-33-33-33-/-33-/-33-33-33 White Sox: 45-45-45-/-45-45-40-/-35-/-12-10-8 It's the same dollars, opt outs, and AAV, but Machado would be stupid to take the Yankees offer at that point. Hahn needs to be creative and use the payroll flexibility the rebuild has afforded him to land one of these big fish and ensure they opt out when it's best for the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 4 hours ago, dominik-keul@gmx.de said: La Roche came off a 127 wrc+ season with a 277 average and 26 homers. He was old but there was reason to believe he could have been like an average first baseman for another year. Nobody could have foreseen that he tanked that much. It was some risk but for the money it was an ok gamble at the time. 1st of all your stats are off , not by much but stats are the easiest thing to get accurate. LaRoche hit .259 not .277 . 277 was his BABIP 2nd.Actually if you were to revisit that thread after the trade a lot of us foresaw it being a bad move. He couldn't hit lefties any more and yet the Sox kept hitting him against lefties. Throw in that we were already leery of a LH guy named Adam from the NL . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominikk85 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 4 hours ago, dominik-keul@gmx.de said: La Roche came off a 127 wrc+ season with a 277 average and 26 homers. He was old but there was reason to believe he could have been like an average first baseman for another year. Nobody could have foreseen that he tanked that much. Yeah got that wrong. Still the 127 wrc+ is correct. It wasn't a great get but I'm sure projections had him like a 110 wrc+ or so which is decent. I'm sure Hahn would have preferred someone else but he didn't have more money then. I'm sure if you give him 200m he will make better signings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, dominik-keul@gmx.de said: Yeah got that wrong. Still the 127 wrc+ is correct. It wasn't a great get but I'm sure projections had him like a 110 wrc+ or so which is decent. I'm sure Hahn would have preferred someone else but he didn't have more money then. I'm sure if you give him 200m he will make better signings. Yea I think he will too , at least I hope so. Sometimes its not that hard. Last year the only 2 FA I picked picked were Moustaskas because he was super cheap w a draft pick attached to him and JD Martinez. If remember the threads about Moose well because even others advocating for him besides me were throwing out 3/4yrs $35/40M and I kept saying wait he's not going to cost that much. But most here didn't want to sign any FA because it was too early in the rebuild. Martinez ended up with a career year and KC traded Moose for some decent talent. The draft pick we would have ended up losing was Steele Walker and I think what KC got in return was better . Of course in fairness that remains to be seen. Hahn could've got different players for Moose better or worse and Walker has a long way to go to prove himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 On 11/10/2018 at 2:13 AM, ChiliIrishHammock24 said: What bad contracts has Hahn handed out? How does that compare to all the great contracts he's gotten players to agree to sign? Hahn gets way too much credit for a few team friendly extensions in the modern era of team-friendly extensions. Not every player signs one but a hell of a lot of them do. The best team in the division has signed more than Hahn, because they have been better at developing young talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 What player, other than Carlos Rodon, could the White Sox have even considered (rationally) extending into their FA years...after Anderson? And Rodon was never going to agree to do that, we knew it the minute he was drafted with Boras as his agent. Hard to say that decision has worked well, unless you compare it to drafting Aiken or Kolek. Eloy Jimenez might be the only other choice for Hahn at the moment...and the odds of an agreement are slim and none at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 1 hour ago, LittleHurt05 said: Hahn gets way too much credit for a few team friendly extensions in the modern era of team-friendly extensions. Not every player signs one but a hell of a lot of them do. The best team in the division has signed more than Hahn, because they have been better at developing young talent. I would give him credit for it. It did get done. The fact that he couldn't build around it is very troubling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: I would give him credit for it. It did get done. The fact that he couldn't build around it is very troubling. The fact that so far the guys we got back when we traded those players are struggling and hurt is equally troubling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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