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The argument to keep Avi Garcia

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2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

He's got incentives in the contract that could make it as high as $6M if he reaches 650 plate appearances with steps along the way that give him $250K for AB number 350 and $250K for every 50 AB's up to 600 then another $1M for 650

He's also missed 11 of Tampa Bay's games so far this season.

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1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

Where do you get $16M?

I messed up on that, was looking at the Baseball Ref page and I was living in 2018.  Thx.

2019 Contract Status: Signed thru 2019, 2 yrs/$16M (18-19) & 20 team option  

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On 11/29/2018 at 10:28 AM, BamaDoc said:

Avi has one of the higher ceilings of players currently on the roster.  That potential is why we have all been frustrated by his performance.  He has actually performed at the MLB level though not as often as we would like.  2017 did happen.  There was improved power last year.  We all witnessed the turnaround in Basabe's performance when he played on a healthy knee and returned to prospect status.  Could Avi rebound.......sure, likely maybe not.  Could we sign Harper....sure, likely maybe not.  If a healthy Avi shows up, he will certainly be motivated and aside from a couple times on a bad leg, he does hustle.  You would have a bat to flip at the deadline or keep and attach a qualifying offer and get a draft pick.  If you sign someone or he looks bad in spring training, you cut him at a cost of around 2 million.  Heck if you sign someone and he looks good, he could play till Eloy comes up and then be a DH.  Probably a better DH in a platoon than Davidson.  If there is a definite improvement arranged I understand allocating the dollars to the improvement but I don't see it happening by the tender deadline.  I still like the idea of the threat of release leading to a 5 million deal with 3-5 in incentives.  If he is great he could make more and if not we save some.  Give him 2.5 at signing so he makes a guaranteed 500k more than if you tender and cut.  Win-win.

Well if we had done what I suggested, he would have gotten about 1.5 more up front and we would have had a relatively competent bat in RF or dhing on occasion.  His performance possibly would be flippable at deadline if he were to heat up a little before the deadline also.

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15 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

He's got incentives in the contract that could make it as high as $6M if he reaches 650 plate appearances with steps along the way that give him $250K for AB number 350 and $250K for every 50 AB's up to 600 then another $1M for 650

Hahn blew this one, no doubts about it.  He wasted $4 million on an outfielder that hasn’t even played for the Sox yet.  Bringing back Avi for a similar price would have been a much better idea.

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12 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

He's also missed 11 of Tampa Bay's games so far this season.

Jon Jay has missed all of the Sox games so far this season and Hahn gave him $4 million guaranteed.

Whether Avi hits his incentives or not, he was light years better of a free agent signing than Jon Jay.

Edited by Moan4Yoan

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2 hours ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Jon Jay has missed all of the Sox games so far this season and Hahn gave him $4 million guaranteed.

Whether Avi hits his incentives or not, he was light years better of a free agent signing than Jon Jay.

Sox traded for Alsonso 1st didn't they  ? I mean if you thought you might get Machado by getting his bro in law why bother to sign Jay ? Heck Adam Jones was a teammate of Machado and he signed for $3M + another $2M in incentives. So less than Jay in guaranteed money. What's with the Sox not being creative enough to add incentives to low cost guys ? I thought Hahn's thing was contracts. Even if they didn't want Avi back despite him showing signs of average and power his last 2 years why pass on Jones a much better and younger guy than Jay ? They just took the whole family and friends plan way too far.

They had the right idea with McCann a youngish candidate for a bounce back type year though few if any thought he would be as good as he has been, not just the hitting but the defense , the arm, the game calling ,the game planning. All that work with Verlander and Scherzer must have paid off. They could've done the same with Avi who is a year younger than McCann almost to the day. Or even Jonathon Schoop who is just a bit younger than Avi, another bounce back type guy and another team mate of Machado's  and his double play partner.

We talk about Kenny talking out of his ass enough but Hahn did it too when they acquired both Alonso and Jay spouting this:

"Fundamentally, this is a baseball deal," Hahn said. "We feel this makes us better. We like how Yonder fits in between the lines and in the clubhouse, and helps further what we're trying to accomplish in 2019 and beyond.

"The potential ancillary benefits to it in terms of his relationships with others really can't be part of pulling the trigger in making the decision to acquire a big-league player, especially a veteran one with this type of contract commitment."

On a conference call Thursday to discuss the signing of Jon Jay to a one-year, $4 million contract, Hahn had similar thoughts. Jay is close friends with Machado and Alonso, and the trio are regular workout partners during the off-season.

To clear a roster spot for Jay, the Sox designated New Trier High School product Charlie Tilson for assignment.

"We are very pleased to add him," Hahn said of Jay. "Obviously, much has been made about his relationships with other players and other potential free-agent targets, and I can certainly tell you that we signed Jon Jay -- and he's been on our target list all off-season as well as other off-seasons -- for what he brings on and off the field, not because of his relationships with any other specific targets."

https://www.dailyherald.com/sports/20190110/jay-signing-adds-another-layer-of-intrigue-to-white-soxs-pursuit-of-machado

 

Edited by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

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Jon Jay was being paid 8 million by the Cubs in 2017.  Played center field adequately for several championship teams.  Very much reminds me of a Leury Garcia kind of guy.  Not a star but finds ways to be useful.  This injury along with Alonso suckage just adds to the off season frustration.  Jay taken on his own was a reasonable add that just didn't pan out.

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2 hours ago, poppysox said:

Jon Jay was being paid 8 million by the Cubs in 2017.  Played center field adequately for several championship teams.  Very much reminds me of a Leury Garcia kind of guy.  Not a star but finds ways to be useful.  This injury along with Alonso suckage just adds to the off season frustration.  Jay taken on his own was a reasonable add that just didn't pan out.

You might be one of a very few who think that. I know the rest of us are using hindsight but there was no reason to sign a 34 year old whose best days were behind him . Talking about his past means nothing when a guy is that old. He wasn't fast anymore .More than likely if the Sox don't give him $4M he signs a minor league deal. It wasn't even close to a reasonable add when they just could've non tendered Avi then resigned him like TB did. Jay had no upside at all while AVi still did. This is still a rebuild  and one of your goals is  to dumpster dive for guys with some upside, not sign washed up players. They did it with Cordell, Tilson, Gillaspie, Banuelos, Marshall , Osich, McCann. The list goes on and on. To totally ignore his relationship with Machado is baffling since that seems to be the only reasonable explanation to why the Sox signed him .

Edited by CaliSoxFanViaSWside
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6 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

You might be one of a very few who think that. I know the rest of us are using hindsight but there was no reason to sign a 34 year old whose best days were behind him . Talking about his past means nothing when a guy is that old. He wasn't fast anymore .More than likely if the Sox don't give him $4M he signs a minor league deal. It wasn't even close to a reasonable add when they just could've non tendered Avi then resigned him like TB did. Jay had no upside at all while AVi still did. This is still a rebuild  and one of your goals is  to dumpster dive for guys with some upside, not sign washed up players. They did it with Cordell, Tilson, Gillaspie, Banuelos, Marshall , Osich, McCann. The list goes on and on. To totally ignore his relationship with Machado is baffling since that seems to be the only reasonable explanation to why the Sox signed him .

I still can't figure out this injury. There was never a "Jay sprains his whatever" article in February, he just showed up to the team so badly hurt that he will miss literally 1/2 the season. Did they just not give him a physical?

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5 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I still can't figure out this injury. There was never a "Jay sprains his whatever" article in February, he just showed up to the team so badly hurt that he will miss literally 1/2 the season. Did they just not give him a physical?

Just another rational question to be asked of this front office, medical staff.  

An individual whom I respect, a long time fan, told me after all the "mystery" and uncertainty about Rodon's injury from last year, that he would never believe anything the Sox said regarding a player injury ever again and that he'd always assume the worst until shown otherwise about an injured player.

Going back as I've stated before to "Shouldergate" and those pitchers who accused the Sox of misdiagnosing their injuries, you do have to reasonably wonder what goes on sometimes. Not "blaming" anyone, doctors are human but especially given the stakes you'd hope this just wouldn't happen. These are supposedly the best doctors, trainers and physical therapists around. Are just a few times acceptable? Is the baseline number "it shouldn't happen at all?"

Again I don't know, I guess it depends on your point of view.

Edited by Lip Man 1

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5 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I still can't figure out this injury. There was never a "Jay sprains his whatever" article in February, he just showed up to the team so badly hurt that he will miss literally 1/2 the season. Did they just not give him a physical?


"Jay sprains his whatever" would make an interesting article for sure.

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7 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I still can't figure out this injury. There was never a "Jay sprains his whatever" article in February, he just showed up to the team so badly hurt that he will miss literally 1/2 the season. Did they just not give him a physical?

Might've been a severe case of I opened my mouth and bit the hand that feeds me-itis . Didn't it come out that Jay and perhaps Alonso might've told Machado SD was a wonderful place to play ?

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If Jon Jay gets any at bats with the Sox, that will be sad. There's no need for the guy on our team.

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26 minutes ago, greg775 said:

If Jon Jay gets any at bats with the Sox, that will be sad. There's no need for the guy on our team.

It would mean that Charlie Tilson got hurt. At this point in his career, Jay is a 34 year old Charlie Tilson. 

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On 6/16/2019 at 5:31 PM, Balta1701 said:

I still can't figure out this injury. There was never a "Jay sprains his whatever" article in February, he just showed up to the team so badly hurt that he will miss literally 1/2 the season. Did they just not give him a physical?

Well he didn't show up hurt as I saw him play in a spring training game.

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