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Sleepy Harold

Dodgers have reached out about Jose Abreu

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16 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Man this dude is over rated here.  He is a an utterly fungible 2-4 WAR 1B that is probably 2 years older than his listed age.  Nice player, not a star, not anymore anyways.  Had a great rookie year.  Love him to death as a clubhouse guy but if the right deal is out there you move him as in 3 more years, when in theory the Sox should be absolutely cooking, he will be long out of his prime.  

The right deal isn’t out there, that’s the point.

No one is giving up freaking Keibert Ruiz for one year of Jose Abreu coming off a down season. 

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3 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Right now I think most experts believe he can be an average-ish LF in the short-term.  At some point, he may get too big & slow for the position, but hopefully that’s a few years out.  I think the Sox will keep him in the OF until someone in the minors forces the issue.

I think the most overblown tendency on soxtalk is to prematurely move every player that doesn't get a glowing defensive report to first base.

 

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Just now, bmags said:

I think the most overblown tendency on soxtalk is to prematurely move every player that doesn't get a glowing defensive report to first base.

 

Yup, Eloy is never going to be Alex Gordon out in LF, but he should be respectable enough.  There should never be a rush to move an OF to first base unless they’re absolutely killing you in the field.

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2 hours ago, wrathofhahn said:

N Of course noone likes the reality of a rebuild when it happens but about the worst thing we can do is go for it when the roster has been torn down and the kids we've traded and drafted are pretty much all still in the minors.

It isn't about disappointment it's about not becoming the next Orioles because when you go for it you are stuck with these guys for 4-5 years. You don't get to just say well I wanted to go for it and it didn't work. The guys are on the roster well beyond when you figure that fact our. Then it sort of becomes a snowball effect the bad moves beget more bad moves and you start trading from your minor leagues because you don't have the payroll flexibility to do anything different.

Take a look at the ML roster. There are holes everywhere and even the positions that are filled there is a ton of uncertainty with respect to health and/or future performance. Unless the plan is to spend 200+ million like the Redsox there will be big gaping holes throughout the roster. So I guess my question is and has always been for those who want to sacrifice the financial flexibility what is the plan  beyond the immediancy of signing Harper or Machado or whatever FA catches your eye. Then what? Do we keep Abreu too? Do you believe that gets you to the playoffs? I don't. I don't think there is a path currently with what is on the roster and what I think is available to us payroll wise. I'm just being real.

So I'd rather use this year to the fullest and get as much prospect capital as we can so that we when these guys do start to get called up and we are in a position to go for it we are in the best position possible.

Completely agree with this. It seems most on this board are pretty delusional about where this team actually is...at least imo, everyone is entitled to their opinion of course.

I think this team needs at least 1 more year to see what they have before making moves that will hurt payroll flexibility going forward. If we can somehow get Harper/Machado, sure go for it, but other than that pipe dream I say only go for a few 1 year deals that won’t block any young players. 

To me 2019 is another rebuild year, 2020 is the year you start to put together the final product and maybe compete for a WC, and 2021 you go all in. 

Rushing the timeline is only going to hurt everyone in my opinion. We’ve lost this much already, what’s another year?

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I think any Abreu trade to the Dodgers only happens if they make a big deal for Kluber and/or Realmuto.  As for it hindering the Sox chances to get Bryce/Manny, I'm sure having Abreu on or off the team is something they've planned for all offseason.

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54 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

The right deal isn’t out there, that’s the point.

No one is giving up freaking Keibert Ruiz for one year of Jose Abreu coming off a down season. 

Probably not but I don't subscribe to the notion we couldn't get anything for him. Look at what Goldie went for. Now Abreu is coming off a down season but I'd accept a package centered around May, Alvarez, Cartaya.

Going into last season what Goldie went for was sort of what I expected Abreu value as. Two top 100 guys (or in this case Weaver) one interesting guy (or in this case comp B). After his down season I probably would want 1 top 100. Two interesting guys. Interesting to see what the market is.

Edited by wrathofhahn

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2 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

Probably not but I don't subscribe to the notion we couldn't get anything for him. Look at what Goldie went for. Now Abreu is coming off a down season but I'd accept a package centered around May, Alvarez, Cartaya.

Goldschmidt is a legit star.  His worst seasons are about as good as Jose's bests.   He's projected for 4.2 fWAR on Steamer, Jose is projected at 2.4.  I'd go ahead and take the over on that delta of 1.8 fWAR for 2019.  I keep saying it over and over but just observing Jose and looking at the back of his baseball card -- he's an old 31.  I do think he is 33 or 34.

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4 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Goldschmidt is a legit star.  His worst seasons are about as good as Jose's bests.   He's projected for 4.2 fWAR on Steamer, Jose is projected at 2.4.  I'd go ahead and take the over on that delta of 1.8 fWAR for 2019.  I keep saying it over and over but just observing Jose and looking at the back of his baseball card -- he's an old 31.  I do think he is 33 or 34.

Abreu in 2017 looked like a legit star. He also had two years of control versus Goldie one. The time to move him was then it's clear Abreu value has declined the question is by how much.

I honestly have no idea I'd like to think he still has value around the league teams continue to show interest but what those offers are is anyones guess unless they get leaked. I posted what I'd like to think he's worth he's definitely not worthless as some have suggested,

Edited by wrathofhahn

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5 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

Abreu in 2017 looked like a legit star. He also had two years of control versus Goldie one. The time to move him was then it's clear Abreu value has declined the question is by how much.

I honestly have no idea I'd like to think he still has value around the league teams continue to show interest but what those offers are is anyones guess unless they get leaked. I posted what I'd like to think he's worth he's definitely not worthless as some have suggested,

Both Goldschmidt and Abreu had 2 years of team control after 2017, both are free agents after 2019 and both have 1 year of control right now. Abreu will also probably make ~$4 million more this year.

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Just now, Balta1701 said:

Both Goldschmidt and Abreu had 2 years of team control after 2017, both are free agents after 2019 and both have 1 year of control right now. Abreu will also probably make ~$4 million more this year.

Agreed what I was saying was the package Goldie went this year for is what I expected to get for Abreu last offseason and at the time Abreu had an extra year. Sorry if I made that confusing.

Anyways it's too bad the offer hasn't leaked so we would have some idea of his value

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3 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

Agreed what I was saying was the package Goldie went this year for is what I expected to get for Abreu last offseason and at the time Abreu had an extra year. Sorry if I made that confusing.

Anyways it's too bad the offer hasn't leaked so we would have some idea of his value

Ah, gotcha.

I think you're probably roughly right on what Abreu's value was last offseason, but it's probably also true that, since the White Sox don't need to move salary and they have both Moncada and Robert and Lopez and others in the system, he's worth more to the White Sox than he is to other teams, even if he doesn't produce. 

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9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Ah, gotcha.

I think you're probably roughly right on what Abreu's value was last offseason, but it's probably also true that, since the White Sox don't need to move salary and they have both Moncada and Robert and Lopez and others in the system, he's worth more to the White Sox than he is to other teams, even if he doesn't produce. 

yea but at some point the players just gotta play the damn game. We have a coaching staff. It's Abreu's job to hit, not coach.

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12 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Ah, gotcha.

I think you're probably roughly right on what Abreu's value was last offseason, but it's probably also true that, since the White Sox don't need to move salary and they have both Moncada and Robert and Lopez and others in the system, he's worth more to the White Sox than he is to other teams, even if he doesn't produce. 

Lopez is not Cuban.

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Trading Abreu would mean 1 thing. The White Sox know they aren't Ahab, and they are moving on. It could also be pointed out that even if a deal happens, we can resign Jose in 11 months, just like we could if we traded him.

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9 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Lopez is not Cuban.

However, when he was first called up in 2017, Lopez felt something weird while throwing a pitch, the trainer came out, he told the trainer he was fine, but then Abreu stayed behind, asked him what was really up, Lopez told him, Abreu called the trainers back out, and Lopez left the game for a short DL stint. So even though he's not Cuban, we have already seen him do a better job of dealing with the young guys than some of the coaching staff.

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12 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Trading Abreu would mean 1 thing. The White Sox know they aren't Ahab, and they are moving on. It could also be pointed out that even if a deal happens, we can resign Jose in 11 months, just like we could if we traded him.

I'm totally okay with this if Hahn comes up empty.

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1 minute ago, DirtySox said:

I'm totally okay with this if Hahn comes up empty.

yep, no more in-between.  Thought last offseason was extremely poor, as they didn't deal Avi/Abreu but didn't try to find significant pieces to flip (Soria was pretty mild).  This offseason, it's either spend money and/or trade prospects for core players or unload those might not be around in 3 years when you're looking to contend (Abreu,  Castillo, possibly Rodon).

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Quote

Chicago White Sox — After trading Chris Sale and their entire rotation for prospects, the White Sox are at the point where they need to show some progress in terms of contending. They are still taking calls on first baseman Jose Abreu, but there’s an organizational debate on whether they should move him before the big money starts or keep him.

Quote

Houston Astros — The Astros want a first baseman with power, which is why they’ve inquired about Abreu and were also in on Paul Goldschmidt before he was traded to St. Louis.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2018/12/08/here-what-could-happen-baseball-winter-meetings/VVND4nfMGUCpG5rPgFFFmI/story.html

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