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Dick Allen

Harold Baines HOFer

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6 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Kittle is a really nice guy. You probably caught him at a bad time for him. If you bring your banner to Soxfest, he will be there walking around, and I am sure he would sign it for you, and probably talk to you for about 45 minutes.

 

That's freaking awesome. I'm down. I don't care that we didn't win, I do know the boys tried their ass off and as a fan that's all I ask. The 83 Os were a damn good team. No shame in losing to them, but man that's the team I wanted to see drink champagne. 

That banner is one of the most special things I own. Worth nothing, but it somehow survived and it's still with me. That was a fun year, thanks to the boys.  

 

Edited by kwolf68

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LOL.  Not that the Hall of Fame had much credibility left, but it's gotta be all gone now. 

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Good for Harold, and for those of you who grew up watching him play. I guess this makes the ball I got him to sign at last year's SoxFest extra cool now. As someone who only saw him play in his final stint and even as a kid looking at his career stats in Who's Who in Baseball, I never quite got the adoration. I still don't think I do.

Baines is the new example that'll be used to show the Hall being watered-down. He's a worse candidate than Rice or Dawson. This shows the flaws in the committee system in particular--a system which is responsible for bad selections going all the way back to the 60s.

 

From Craig Calcaterra at NBC's HardballTalk:

 

"Baines played for 22 seasons, amassed 2,866 hits and made the All-Star Game six times. He was a fantastically consistent hitter, posting an OPS+ of 108 or greater every single season between the ages of 22 and 40. He was also a durable player, not missing a whole heck of a lot of time to either injury or ineffectiveness until his late 30s. Even then he managed to hang around until he was 42-years-old. In the early part of his career, with the Chicago White Sox, he was the star of the team and the face of the organization.

 

...

 

For all of the pros in Baines’ column as listed above, it has to be said that Baines will be one of the weaker inductees in some time. He led the league in exactly one offensive category in his long career: slugging percentage in 1984. He was rarely a top-10 finisher in the most important offensive categories. His highest finish in MVP balloting came in 1985 when he came in ninth. While Baines may have meant a lot to the White Sox in the first part of his career there is no way one can honestly argue that he was ever the best player in the game or even one of the best five, six or, usually, ten. His failure to rank highly in hitting categories is especially notable given that over 1,600 of his 2,830 career games came at DH. He was certainly not thought of as a Hall of Famer by the men and women who covered him during his day: he was on the BBWAA ballot five times and never received more than 6.1% of the vote. He fell off the ballot in 2011 when he received 4.8%."

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For many years, I had heard that 2866 base hits called for automatic selection to HOF.

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Some times good things happen to good people.

I met Harold several times, watched him play hundreds of time, I am estatic and yes, surprised that he got in.  DH's are minimized by the writers. And, as Hawk used to say "its not what you do its when you do it". You wanted HB up there in key situations, he was clutch.

And I've been fortunate to meet Ron Kittle many times, he is a good man with a keen sense of humor.

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4 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

I'd love to hear Hawk Harrelson's thoughts on this.

Met Baines a few times, you could tell he would be a great teammate. 

Hawk would occasionally mention that Harold would be in the HOF some day. I always got the impression the Stone Pony was thinking "yeah right" sitting next to him, as he would never say anything as a follow up. 

Personally if it were me voting, I don't think he had a HOF career. I think the point some are making that George Steinbrenner didn't get in, but Harold did, is a good one.  But I am glad he got in. 

DH is a position. I do think it needs to be quantified in a better way. 

Edited by Dick Allen

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He is not a first ballot HOF kind of guy but he's like those old timers that used to get in because the veterans committee played with them and liked them.  His fans are ecstatic and the baseball "purist" are pissed.  The other 98% don't care one way or another.

He is the anti-Ron Santo, he got in because the 80's White Sox members of the selection committee (Reinsdorf, LaRussa) and the rest of the people thought he was a deserving member.

I was flipping on MLBN  to see the start of winter coverage and when all the talk was Yankees, Dodgers, cubs getting Machado and Harper I turned it off and then flipped back to see the announcement right around Bears kickoff....great timing....no clue Harold was on the ballot. 

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14 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

He finished 166 hits shy of 3000 and missed 1.5 seasons due to labor strife. That surely would have filled the gap. If not for strikes/lockouts he would have been in a decade ago. Nice job getting this one right. 

lets not forget the HUGE  ballparks he had to hit in during his time with White Sox.  Old Comiskey and Detroit were the  biggest ballparks and Cleveland wasn't far behind.  I think you can add a lot more homers to his total and without the strike years I agree 3000 hits would have been in the bag.

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4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

This Russo guy on MLBN is pretty pissed about Baines getting voted in.

He's always pissed about everything, Elmer Fudd sounding son of a b****!

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Paul Richards once said that Harold Baines would be stopping by Chicago for some years on his way to Cooperstown.

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5 hours ago, 3GamesToLove said:

Good for Harold, and for those of you who grew up watching him play. I guess this makes the ball I got him to sign at last year's SoxFest extra cool now. As someone who only saw him play in his final stint and even as a kid looking at his career stats in Who's Who in Baseball, I never quite got the adoration. I still don't think I do.

Baines is the new example that'll be used to show the Hall being watered-down. He's a worse candidate than Rice or Dawson. This shows the flaws in the committee system in particular--a system which is responsible for bad selections going all the way back to the 60s.

 

From Craig Calcaterra at NBC's HardballTalk:

 

"Baines played for 22 seasons, amassed 2,866 hits and made the All-Star Game six times. He was a fantastically consistent hitter, posting an OPS+ of 108 or greater every single season between the ages of 22 and 40. He was also a durable player, not missing a whole heck of a lot of time to either injury or ineffectiveness until his late 30s. Even then he managed to hang around until he was 42-years-old. In the early part of his career, with the Chicago White Sox, he was the star of the team and the face of the organization.

 

...

 

For all of the pros in Baines’ column as listed above, it has to be said that Baines will be one of the weaker inductees in some time. He led the league in exactly one offensive category in his long career: slugging percentage in 1984. He was rarely a top-10 finisher in the most important offensive categories. His highest finish in MVP balloting came in 1985 when he came in ninth. While Baines may have meant a lot to the White Sox in the first part of his career there is no way one can honestly argue that he was ever the best player in the game or even one of the best five, six or, usually, ten. His failure to rank highly in hitting categories is especially notable given that over 1,600 of his 2,830 career games came at DH. He was certainly not thought of as a Hall of Famer by the men and women who covered him during his day: he was on the BBWAA ballot five times and never received more than 6.1% of the vote. He fell off the ballot in 2011 when he received 4.8%."

There could be some truth in there but the real reason Baines got in was owing to respect from his peers. They were the ones in a position to best know.

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45 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

This Russo guy on MLBN is pretty pissed about Baines getting voted in.

As are most baseball experts, it's really hard to justify his induction by any metric other than he played a really long time.  But the HOF has become a farce anyway, so I digress.  

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Just now, LittleHurt05 said:

As are most baseball experts, it's really hard to justify his induction by any metric other than he played a really long time.  But the HOF has become a farce anyway, so I digress.  

I actually don’t disagree with any of his points, just thought it was funny how mad he actually was about this.

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36 minutes ago, LittleHurt05 said:

As are most baseball experts, it's really hard to justify his induction by any metric other than he played a really long time.  But the HOF has become a farce anyway, so I digress.  

According to BBref, of his 5 most similar hitters, 4 of them were already in the HOF.  Tony Perez, Al Kaline, Dave Parker, Billy Williams and Andre Dawson are the 5.

Is he the best player in the HOF?  No not at all.  Nor is he the worst.  Some of his numbers are completely at home among the hitters in the HOF.  He is top 50 all time in hits(46th) and RBI(34th).  He is 65th in Home Runs.  78th in Doubles.  He hit .290 with an .820 OPS over 22 seasons.  He was an All Star at age 40 with a .919 OPS.  Maybe he didn't have the high peak that many HOF-ers, but he never really had any valleys either.  His career was basically a 22 year plateau that yielded some great numbers.  

Edited by turnin' two

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During a long career Harold was among the top 5-6 hitters in many notable offensive categories. Although he is a very low-key guy fact is that 12 of the committee members have a very high opinion of him. Part of the reaction may be explained because he was an under the radar kind of guy. He should have only played for one team. 

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I got my numbers mixed up 

Baines finished 134 hits away from 3K. 

He missed: 

56 games in 1982

50 games in 1994

18 games in 1995

I'd imagine the Sox would have let him stick around long enough to get to like 3010 without that.  

Edited by Jack Parkman

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