GermanSoxFan Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Just for funsies: What kind of return would that translate to in Sox prospects? Cease, Narvaez(let's just assume he was still here) , Flores? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 Ha, just thought about if the Marlins now have enough to sign that Cuban SS prospect. Would be brutal for Os fans. Last year they thought they had victor victor and he went to marlins right? THis would be a hilarious double gut punch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 Just now, GermanSoxFan said: Just for funsies: What kind of return would that translate to in Sox prospects? Cease, Narvaez(let's just assume he was still here) , Flores? No I don't think the positions would translate so cleanly. Cease, Basabe or Adolfo, Flores sure, maybe pilkington. Would be close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, GermanSoxFan said: Just for funsies: What kind of return would that translate to in Sox prospects? Cease, Narvaez(let's just assume he was still here) , Flores? I'd says Cease, Collins and Flores is as close to a comp as we'd get. Alfaro was more highly regarded than Collins at one point, but his stock has definitely faded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 In other news, the Marlins are going to be really bad next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GermanSoxFan Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 If the Sox were closer to contention I would be more than fine with that trade. I am surprised no team was willing to beat that offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 38 minutes ago, GermanSoxFan said: That return feels light for arguably the best catcher in baseball. 35 minutes ago, bmags said: Sixto is really good but yeah. I still like Alfaro. Lighter than I expected for sure. But you’re only getting two years of said catcher. Sixto Sanchez is a legit 60 FV prospect plus they got a 25 year old catcher coming off a 2.5 WARP season who’s under control for five seasons. I think this is a fantastic return if you believe there is room for growth with Alfaro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said: But you’re only getting two years of said catcher. Sixto Sanchez is a legit 60 FV prospect plus they got a 25 year old catcher coming off a 2.5 WARP season who’s under control for five seasons. I think this is a fantastic return if you believe there is room for growth with Alfaro. Realmuto was their one big chip though, I'm not using it to acquire a 19 year old pitcher, much as I love him. I would have definitely tried to get more position players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 31 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: I'd says Cease, Collins and Flores is as close to a comp as we'd get. Alfaro was more highly regarded than Collins at one point, but his stock has definitely faded. I think you’re really underestimating how valuable Alfaro is. Even if you think Collins is a 50 FV prospect (which would be aggressive) he’d be much worth less than Alfaro IMO. Kid just put up 2.2 fWAR & 2.5 WARP in a 108 games last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 1 minute ago, bmags said: Realmuto was their one big chip though, I'm not using it to acquire a 19 year old pitcher, much as I love him. I would have definitely tried to get more position players. Pitching, pitching, pitching. Then buy the more predictable hitters later. I would give a hitter a big 6-8 deal. I wouldn't give that to a pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 1 minute ago, bmags said: Realmuto was their one big chip though, I'm not using it to acquire a 19 year old pitcher, much as I love him. I would have definitely tried to get more position players. That’s totally fair, but even the Sox had to take pitching prospects in all three of their big deals. Sometimes that’s just the way the market shakes out. Now, if it comes out the Dodgers were offering Ruiz + Verdugo I totally get it. But I’d rather have Sixto than India if those were my centerpiece options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GermanSoxFan Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: I think you’re really underestimating how valuable Alfaro is. Even if you think Collins is a 50 FV prospect (which would be aggressive) he’d be much worth less than Alfaro IMO. Kid just put up 2.2 fWAR & 2.5 WARP in a 108 games last year. WAR is wonky when it comes to catchers. Alfaro is Narvaez-esque back there. He has a strong arm but as a receiver he is awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 1 minute ago, GermanSoxFan said: WAR is wonky when it comes to catchers. Alfaro is Narvaez-esque back there. He has a strong arm but as a receiver he is awful. The difference is BP has him as one of the best framers baseball. Admittedly, I have to rely on the advanced metrics here, but despite his shortcomings he’s a pretty useful catcher if you believe the framing is legitimate going forward. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 6 minutes ago, ptatc said: Pitching, pitching, pitching. Then buy the more predictable hitters later. I would give a hitter a big 6-8 deal. I wouldn't give that to a pitcher. I understand this view but it also predicates itself on valuing the full 6 years of a young pitching prospect. I'd rather get the predictable hitters long term, and use the flexibility in money and additional prospects to get professional pitchers as I need them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GermanSoxFan Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: The difference is BP has him as one of the best framers baseball. Admittedly, I have to rely on the advanced metrics here, but despite his shortcomings he’s a pretty useful catcher if you believe the framing is legitimate going forward. I am strictly relying on the old eye test and Alfaro was easily one of the worst regular catchers in baseball last year. But I know how deceiving that can be. source: I watched a ton of Phillies games without any good reason. 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 9 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: That’s totally fair, but even the Sox had to take pitching prospects in all three of their big deals. Sometimes that’s just the way the market shakes out. Now, if it comes out the Dodgers were offering Ruiz + Verdugo I totally get it. But I’d rather have Sixto than India if those were my centerpiece options. Yeah my Reds fan friend thought they were getting Realmuto with India and I was pessimistic that the Marlins would trade Realmuto for a player that had only really performed at an elite level for 3 months of his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 6 minutes ago, GermanSoxFan said: I am strictly relying on the old eye test and Alfaro was easily one of the worst regular catchers in baseball last year. But I know how deceiving that can be. source: I watched a ton of Phillies games without any good reason. 😂 I agree you can’t rely solely on defensive metrics, especially for catchers, so if he looked that bad to you I’m willing to accept his WAR is likely overstated. I still think he has to be a far superior catcher to Narvaez who has both the eye test & advanced metrics working against him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 8 minutes ago, bmags said: Yeah my Reds fan friend thought they were getting Realmuto with India and I was pessimistic that the Marlins would trade Realmuto for a player that had only really performed at an elite level for 3 months of his career. I know India has his fans here, but he would have been a poor centerpiece for the exact reason you stated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 27 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: I think you’re really underestimating how valuable Alfaro is. Even if you think Collins is a 50 FV prospect (which would be aggressive) he’d be much worth less than Alfaro IMO. Kid just put up 2.2 fWAR & 2.5 WARP in a 108 games last year. Yah, personally just not a huge Alfaro far. I also think Cease is a better get than Sanchez, mainly because he's closer and more certain to be a big leaguer, so that helps close some of the gap. Mainly just playing along with the question, tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 22 minutes ago, bmags said: I understand this view but it also predicates itself on valuing the full 6 years of a young pitching prospect. I'd rather get the predictable hitters long term, and use the flexibility in money and additional prospects to get professional pitchers as I need them. Both ways are valid and have good and bad aspects. i like the young pitching (and lots of it) with the cost control. Then move on because as they get older there is more likely to be issues with them than the hitter. Put the money and long term investment in the hitters. Run through all the young pitching you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 I feel like the Marlins have done a horrific job with their firesale. Realmuto (Best catcher in baseball) for Sanchez (stud prospect but has never even thrown 100 innings in a season), Alfaro (decent young catcher who will be coming up on FA by the time the Marlins have any chance of competing) and a fringe prospect. Yelich (NL MVP) for Isan Diaz, Monte Harrison, Jordan Yamamoto and Lewis Brinson. The big pieces here were Brinson and Harrison and Harrison was a disaster in the minors last year and based on returns to date I'd be pretty surprised if Brinson is ever a good hitter. Ozuna for Alcantara (probably a back of rotation starter), Magneuris Sierra (I'm very comfortable saying he will never be a good hitter), Zac Gallen (maybe getting a back of rotation starter), and Daniel Castano (basically a non-prospect) Giancarlo Stanton for Starlin Castro, Jorge Guzman, and Jose Devers That is two MVP caliber players (albeit one making crazy money), a good cost controlled outfielder and the best catcher in baseball and it is very possible they wind up with just a couple fringe outfielders and back of rotation starters in return. Yikes. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 5 minutes ago, whitesoxfan99 said: I feel like the Marlins have done a horrific job with their firesale. Realmuto (Best catcher in baseball) for Sanchez (stud prospect but has never even thrown 100 innings in a season), Alfaro (decent young catcher who will be coming up on FA by the time the Marlins have any chance of competing) and a fringe prospect. Yelich (NL MVP) for Isan Diaz, Monte Harrison, Jordan Yamamoto and Lewis Brinson. The big pieces here were Brinson and Harrison and Harrison was a disaster in the minors last year and based on returns to date I'd be pretty surprised if Brinson is ever a good hitter. Ozuna for Alcantara (probably a back of rotation starter), Magneuris Sierra (I'm very comfortable saying he will never be a good hitter), Zac Gallen (maybe getting a back of rotation starter), and Daniel Castano (basically a non-prospect) Giancarlo Stanton for Starlin Castro, Jorge Guzman, and Jose Devers That is two MVP caliber players (albeit one making crazy money), a good cost controlled outfielder and the best catcher in baseball and it is very possible they wind up with just a couple fringe outfielders and back of rotation starters in return. Yikes. The Marlins are an awfully run baseball organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 2 hours ago, GermanSoxFan said: That return feels light for arguably the best catcher in baseball. Based on rankings it's probably light. But a good GM and his team are much better talent evaluators than the rankings, so we'll see what Jeter's got. Who's going to the the best prospects 6 months or a year from now? And avoid the stunted ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said: The Marlins are an awfully run baseball organization. Could you imagine trading the last 2 NL MVPs, the best catcher in baseball, and an All Star OFer, and getting their returns? Yikes. The Sox did better just with their secondary pieces. Kopech, Cease, Basabe, Lopez, Dunning... I'd rather have that crew than what the Marlins have gotten. And the Sox didn't even have an MVP to trade, let alone 2 of them. Maybe it is unfair to characterize Yelich as a traded MVP... but still, even without how he blew up last season, everyone knew that talent level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Yeah.. There isn't a SINGLE Marlins trade that looks like (or looked like) they did okay.. It has looked like they got raped every single time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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