ChiSox59 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, fathom said: Again, I don't think it will happen, but wouldn't you say this to make the Phillies think you're not a threat to blow them out of the water? Matt Klentak (Phillies GM) also said that they felt $300M was well over their valuation of Machado. So skepticism on the the Phillies willingness to blow by $300M for Harper should also be considered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sockin Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GermanSoxFan Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Phil Rogers being a voice of reason, we are truly in the worst timeline. 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Yah, I don't disagree - just sharing what was said. IMO - KW should just keep his mouth shut. What he said was actually pretty much false - they may have been unwilling to guarantee $300M, but if the rumored $250M + $35M + $35M with two fairly attainable vesting options is true, they were definitely willing to go over $300M. They just got too cute. But this is nonsense from the players perspective. Those last 2 years were not guaranteed. They were contingent on plate appearances. Who controls plate appearances? That is why he is now in San Diego. Because the White Sox wouldn't give him an opt out and wouldn't guarantee him the money. Don't let the spin zone from Kenny and Rick fool you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, Sockin said: The problem is the $300 million KW comment, and Nightengale, who is plugged into the White Sox, says the Phillies are bidding against themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegner Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, centerfieldsixers said: KW told the real story in how they operate thats what hurts... we were led to believe it wasnt . all we have is harper signs which is hoping Jennifer Aniston walks through my door Are you willing to offer Jennifer an opt out if she is not happy after 5 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Jenksismyhero said: But this is nonsense from the players perspective. Those last 2 years were not guaranteed. They were contingent on plate appearances. Who controls plate appearances? That is why he is now in San Diego. Because the White Sox wouldn't give him an opt out and wouldn't guarantee him the money. Don't let the spin zone from Kenny and Rick fool you. Had Machado signed with the Sox, he never would have seen a dime of that last 2 years and 70 million. Use your brain people. That was funny money and you know it. Edited February 20, 2019 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: They were 2 difficult to obtain vesting options that a future GM could easily avoid. Not really. Machado has had over 600 plate appearances in 5/6 full seasons in the big leagues. Sure it could be manipulated if he's an albatross at 34 years old, but lets not act like 550 plate appearances is a tough bar to clear for a healthy player that will likely be well on their way to the HOF at age 34. But yah, I get why Machado preferred the $50M guaranteed - especially as a guy that I could definitely see coasting a bit now that he's signed the richest FA contact in the history of american sports. Edited February 20, 2019 by ChiSox59 typo on PA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centerfieldsixers Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Just now, wegner said: Are you willing to offer Jennifer an opt out if she is not happy after 5 years? of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 (edited) It seems a little futile for me to continue to respond to everyone's comments, so please allow me to make one final point. I am simply waiting to see what happens. I didn't like yesterday's failed effort to sign Machado, but until Harper signs, and we can evaluate the merits of his deal, I continue to reserve judgement. I'm just a fan, and have no influence over anything that may, or may not, be done about player acquisitions. If you think that I am being unreasonably and irrationally patient, that is your prerogative. I'm just not comfortable "flying off the handle" and attacking the front office and ownership, without waiting to see what happens. Machado was never my preferred acquisition. I have expressed my personal reservations about him, as a person and as a potential "face of the franchise" player. It would have been a huge upgrade to the roster, but I'm not heart broken over losing him to the Padres. Harper is another story. Depending upon what happens, even yesterday's failure may seem acceptable, in the bigger picture. Carry on gentlemen. Go ahead and get your anger off your chests, if it makes you feel better. Edited February 20, 2019 by Lillian 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschmaranz Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 I'm not understanding why they wouldn't be involved on Harper. If they were up to 250/320 whatever for Machado, wouldn't you think a player of similar production with limitless marketing capability would be worth much more? Just spitballing here, I'm also on the train with the rest that think we're not even talking to them anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Just now, ChiSox59 said: Not really. Machado has had over 600 plate appearances in 5/6 full seasons in the big leagues. Sure it could be manipulated if he's an albatross at 34 years old, but lets not act like 500 plate appearances is a tough bar to clear for a healthy player that will likely be well on their way to the HOF at age 34. But yah, I get why Machado preferred the $50M guaranteed - especially as a guy that I could definitely see coasting a bit now that he's signed the richest FA contact in the history of american sports. Management could make sure he doesn't reach 550 PA. It isn't that hard to do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Just now, ChiSox59 said: Not really. Machado has had over 600 plate appearances in 5/6 full seasons in the big leagues. Sure it could be manipulated if he's an albatross at 34 years old, but lets not act like 500 plate appearances is a tough bar to clear for a healthy player that will likely be well on their way to the HOF at age 34. But yah, I get why Machado preferred the $50M guaranteed - especially as a guy that I could definitely see coasting a bit now that he's signed the richest FA contact in the history of american sports. Guys, you don't understand. It's not just up to manny machado to hit those plate appearances. Woops, hey manny, enjoy your new platoon partner. Hey manny, you are getting older, we have a special rest plan for you. Hey this looks like it could linger, heres a DL trip. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Just now, ChiSox59 said: Not really. Machado has had over 600 plate appearances in 5/6 full seasons in the big leagues. Sure it could be manipulated if he's an albatross at 34 years old, but lets not act like 500 plate appearances is a tough bar to clear for a healthy player that will likely be well on their way to the HOF at age 34. But yah, I get why Machado preferred the $50M guaranteed - especially as a guy that I could definitely see coasting a bit now that he's signed the richest FA contact in the history of american sports. Just for one comparison, Jim Thome would not have made those options. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Just now, Jack Parkman said: Management could make sure he doesn't reach 550 PA. It isn't that hard to do. And the other thing is, whether you want to trust KW, RH and JR that they wouldn't manipulate it, none will probably be here at that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 minute ago, bschmaranz said: I'm not understanding why they wouldn't be involved on Harper. If they were up to 250/320 whatever for Machado, wouldn't you think a player of similar production with limitless marketing capability would be worth much more? Just spitballing here, I'm also on the train with the rest that think we're not even talking to them anymore. Let me help you understand. Imagine you lived in a cave and could only see shadows from the world outside. You create a reality around those shadows, create a whole ecosystem on how those shadows work. Now you go outside and are asked to sign bryce harper. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, bmags said: Guys, you don't understand. It's not just up to manny machado to hit those plate appearances. Woops, hey manny, enjoy your new platoon partner. Hey manny, you are getting older, we have a special rest plan for you. Hey this looks like it could linger, heres a DL trip. And even if Rick Hahn says they would never do that, Machado could have been traded by then. There could be a new GM and ownership by then. 4 years from now he gets traded to the Yankees and the Yankees want that money to spend elsewhere at the end of his contract, he doesn't make the lineups. Imagine Ellsbury with that kind of contract structure. Or Pablo Sandoval. Hell didn't the Red Sox do exactly that to Hanley Ramirez? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Just now, bmags said: Guys, you don't understand. It's not just up to manny machado to hit those plate appearances. Woops, hey manny, enjoy your new platoon partner. Hey manny, you are getting older, we have a special rest plan for you. Hey this looks like it could linger, heres a DL trip. Dude, I do understand. I just said that exact thing. Of course the Sox could make sure he doesn't hit those PA if he sucks at 34 years old. This isn't rocket science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centerfieldsixers Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, Lillian said: It seems a little futile for me to continue to respond to everyone's comments, so please allow me to make one final point. I am simply waiting to see what happens. I didn't like yesterday's failed effort to sign Machado, but until Harper signs, and we can evaluate the merits of his deal, I continue to reserve judgement. I'm just a fan, and have no influence over anything that may, or may not, be done about player acquisitions. If you think that I am being unreasonably and irrationally patient, that is your prerogative. I'm just not comfortable "flying off the handle" and attacking the front office and ownership, without waiting to see what happens. Machado was never my preferred acquisition. I have expressed my personal reservations about him, as a person and as a potential "face of the franchise" player. It would have been an huge upgrade to the roster, but I'm not heart broken over losing him to the Padres. Harper is another story. Depending upon what happens, even yesterday's failure may seem acceptable, in the bigger picture. Carry on gentlemen. Go ahead and get your anger off your chests, if it makes you feel better. agreed. you just say it better than I 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschmaranz Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Just now, bmags said: Let me help you understand. Imagine you lived in a cave and could only see shadows from the world outside. You create a reality around those shadows, create a whole ecosystem on how those shadows work. Now you go outside and are asked to sign bryce harper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 28 minutes ago, GermanSoxFan said: Trade for Longoria, sign Adam Jones, Cargo and Gio. The official slogan of the Sox this year: Partly like it's 2010! As sad as it sounds, those trades/signings make the team a lot better. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said: Dude, I do understand. I just said that exact thing. Of course the Sox could make sure he doesn't hit those PA if he sucks at 34 years old. This isn't rocket science. Regardless of whether or not he sucks, they were going to make sure he didn't hit the number. It was funny money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Vision Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, bmags said: Guys, you don't understand. It's not just up to manny machado to hit those plate appearances. Woops, hey manny, enjoy your new platoon partner. Hey manny, you are getting older, we have a special rest plan for you. Hey this looks like it could linger, heres a DL trip. Exactly. If there is truth to that offer, it sends a terrible message. Can you imagine what Manny and Lozano must have been thinking when they got that offer -- the reason the Sox are doing it this way is because, if you are not still playing at an elite level, they intend to manipulate your plate appearances so those options don't vest. What an awful message to send (but I think it's entirely possible that Hahn and co. didn't even realize it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Perfect Vision said: Exactly. If there is truth to that offer, it sends a terrible message. Can you imagine what Manny and Lozano must have been thinking when they got that offer -- the reason the Sox are doing it this way is because, if you are not still playing at an elite level, they intend to manipulate your plate appearances so those options don't vest. What an awful message to send (but I think it's entirely possible that Hahn and co. didn't even realize it). It's 8 years away. JR will be over 90. Hahn and KW will be retirement age. They wouldn't be making the decisions. If JR sells, the first thing new ownership does is clean house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegner Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 From the beginning, I did want Harper to be the main target so if we get him I will be over the moon happy. Yesterday was bad when it was announced that Manny signed with the Padres. The problem is that it got worse and quite frankly infuriating when Kenny Williams opened his month and said things that he should have known were going to piss off Sox fans. And then Hahn tried to spin it that the Sox offered a better deal when they did not to further piss Sox fans off. If the front office doesn't understand or like that people on Soxtalk are calling them out...tough shit!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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