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Harper to Phillies 13yr/330 mil

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Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Barry bonds is the greatest hitter of all time. My goodness... those two are not similar. 

It would be the largest contract in baseball history and you guys think it's ok to give it to someone you see dhing in 3 years.

Cmon man.  I wan't comparing them as hitters.  I was showing how if you can hit, defense doesn't matter.  I don't know how much it would cost to sign him.  I never said I'd give him 350... yet.  Hell yes I would.  You can't compare him to Machado anymore.  They can't sign Machado.  He is gone.  Off the market.  They screwed around and lost out on him.  That should make them more aggressive in signing Harper.  If that means more giving them more money, that is what needs to be done.  Machado isn't a free agent.  If that drives up Harper's price, well that is economics.  This team should do what needs to be done, which, clearly they won't. 

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1 minute ago, turnin' two said:

Cmon man.  I wan't comparing them as hitters.  I was showing how if you can hit, defense doesn't matter.  I don't know how much it would cost to sign him.  I never said I'd give him 350... yet.  Hell yes I would.  You can't compare him to Machado anymore.  They can't sign Machado.  He is gone.  Off the market.  They screwed around and lost out on him.  That should make them more aggressive in signing Harper.  If that means more giving them more money, that is what needs to be done.  Machado isn't a free agent.  If that drives up Harper's price, well that is economics.  This team should do what needs to be done, which, clearly they won't. 

If you can hit like Barry bonds, nothing else matters. Sure. 

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4 minutes ago, Charlie Haeger's Knuckles said:

Think about how great he was that season.... then think about how comparatively BAD his MVP season was to any of Frank Thomas' MVP seasons.

It was better than 93. Like pretty significantly better.

Edited by mqr

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3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

If you can hit like Barry bonds, nothing else matters. Sure. 

Ok ignore everything else and grab on to that one comparison you are purposely mis-interpreting.

You legitimately think Bonds was the only bad defensive player to make bank because he could hit?  There are hundreds (figure of speech, please don't hold onto it literally!). 

Edited by turnin' two

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1 minute ago, turnin' two said:

Ok ignore everything else and grab on to that one comparison you are purposely mis-interpreting.

You legitimately think Bonds was the only bad defensive player to make bank because he could hit?

...and how much of that ability to hit is directly attributed to "science"

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Maybe Harper is not worth $350 million. Maybe he isn't worth more than Machado got. Maybe he isn't worth as much as Machado got. Maybe even Machado isn't worth what Machado got. And maybe none of these free agents are worth what they get. The point is that this team is now an embarrassment and the few fans it had, in the same city as the widely adored "Cubbies," are ready to abandon the South Side. The people in the front office and ownership have botched this off season so badly, that they desperately need to do something to redeem themselves. The question is; Is there any other plausible move, which they could make this season, other than signing Harper, that would approach redemption, in the eyes of their fans? Maybe the answer to that question will help us all to determine what Bryce Harper is "worth".

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Just now, Greek-konerko said:

U guys they didnt spend 21 millions to sign a good utility guy ala zobrist in marwin u expect to give the stupid money boras wants? Move on

The Marwin Gonzalez type player works best when teams are already good.  If let's whoever's hot to keep playing and give guys rest.   His ability to play everywhere isn't valuable to a rebuilding team as it is to a contender.  

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3 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

No. Absolutely not. I'd give him 310, that's my max. I think Manny is the better player and would have given him more. Sox valued machado at 250. 

Harper has had more mediocre seasons than good/great ones. I think he'll be fine but with his defense dwindling and an injury history youd be nuts to give him 350 for just his baseball skills imo.

That was based on just four plays he didn’t make (not errors, anything could have happened...lost in the lights, etc.) during the course of the entire season that were judged by a computer to be 50/50 attempts.

Four!!!

Palka made that many bad plays on a weekly basis.

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Just now, Charlie Haeger's Knuckles said:

...and how much of that ability to hit is directly attributed to "science"

A lot.  Again that doesn't matter in this context.  It was hardly the point.  Sorry I used him as an example.  

Stanton?  How about him? Bryant? Cabrera?  Hamilton? Pujols?  Howard? Cespedes? Votto?  Cano?  Encarnacion?  Any of those will do.  And many, many more.  

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1 minute ago, turnin' two said:

A lot.  Again that doesn't matter in this context.  It was hardly the point.  Sorry I used him as an example.  

Stanton?  How about him? Bryant? Cabrera?  Hamilton? Pujols?  Howard? Cespedes? Votto?  Cano?  Encarnacion?  Any of those will do.  And many, many more.  

I don't hesitate in any opportunity to point out that Barry Bonds cheated. That's all. Your points are all valid.

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6 minutes ago, Lillian said:

Maybe Harper is not worth $350 million. Maybe he isn't worth more than Machado got. Maybe he isn't worth as much as Machado got. Maybe even Machado isn't worth what Machado got. And maybe none of these free agents are worth what they get. The point is that this team is now an embarrassment and the few fans it had, in the same city as the widely adored "Cubbies," are ready to abandon the South Side. The people in the front office and ownership have botched this off season so badly, that they desperately need to do something to redeem themselves. The question is; Is there any other plausible move, which they could make this season, other than signing Harper, that would approach redemption, in the eyes of their fans? Maybe the answer to that question will help us all to determine what Bryce Harper is "worth".

Personally, its sign Harper or bust.

Disillusionment is an understatement. The only way they could fix it is if player development really turns a corner and develops not just Eloy, but Moncada and others into true studs. That fix requires time, time where a LOT of us will be in Sox limbo. The easy fix is to just go get Harper, give us the big FA we were seemingly promised. That adds a new level of excitement to the rebuild.

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17 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

Ok ignore everything else and grab on to that one comparison you are purposely mis-interpreting.

You legitimately think Bonds was the only bad defensive player to make bank because he could hit?  There are hundreds (figure of speech, please don't hold onto it literally!). 

Bonds won like 97 gold gloves in a row and he stole 600 bases. Can we please stop even using bonds as a barometer for Harper? 

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Put another way; How many fans would be upset, or disillusioned because they gave $350 million of the owners money to Bryce Harper? "Boy, I'm just done with this stupid organization. Can you believe that they just over paid to sign Bryce Harper to a 10 year deal? I'm just done with this team"...When you view with that perspective, it's not hard to see why it makes sense. No one is going to lose interest,  be upset, or spend less time and money on the Sox, because they over spent the owner's money. 

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40 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

He has been GREAT before. Historically great. I have never argued otherwise but the moral of the story is that Harper has had one Great year, one good year, and 3 years not worth the contract.

So what hitter next year?

Arenado, likely gone and those splits home/away.  29/30....not 26.

Bogaerts?  Rendon?  JD Martinez at that age?  Goldschmidt (aging)?  Grandal (aging)?  Didi?  Puig?  Castellanos?

Lets hear some names of these mythical hitters without any flaws that we should be going with?

 

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-free-agency-way-too-early-free-agent-rankings-and-predictions-for-2019-20-hot-stove-season/

 

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10 minutes ago, Lillian said:

Maybe Harper is not worth $350 million. Maybe he isn't worth more than Machado got. Maybe he isn't worth as much as Machado got. Maybe even Machado isn't worth what Machado got. And maybe none of these free agents are worth what they get. The point is that this team is now an embarrassment and the few fans it had, in the same city as the widely adored "Cubbies," are ready to abandon the South Side. The people in the front office and ownership have botched this off season so badly, that they desperately need to do something to redeem themselves. The question is; Is there any other plausible move, which they could make this season, other than signing Harper, that would approach redemption, in the eyes of their fans? Maybe the answer to that question will help us all to determine what Bryce Harper is "worth".

I was thinking about this and I can't think of anything that can be done this offseason besides a trade and even that is somewhat problematic because we should probably continue to sell off short term contracts. So I guess we could flip some shorter term assets for longer term assets or maybe get a sign and trade with someone who would be a free agent next year and that might satisfy people. But Hahn probably won't feel the pressure to do that. Even with another season of bad attendance, JR will still probably make the same amount of money because of the new TV contract and if they sign anyone big next offseason then everyone will come crawling back. That said, the pressure might be on him next offseason. If its another offseason of everyone waiting around maybe they try to go out and target their one guy and get it done before others are really ready to move even if it means paying a little more than necessary.

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2 minutes ago, Lillian said:

Put another way; How many fans would be upset, or disillusioned because they gave $350 million of the owners money to Bryce Harper? "Boy, I'm just done with this stupid organization. Can you believe that they just over paid to sign Bryce Harper to a 10 year deal? I'm just done with this team"...When you view with that perspective, it's not hard to see why it makes sense. No one is going to lose interest,  be upset, or spend less time and money on the Sox, because they over spent the owner's money. 

Quite the opposite actually. Personally, I was eager for the season to start so I can attend more games with Manny in tow. One last chance with Bryce, but seeing how well they handled the Manny negotiations, my confidence level is at 0. 

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By the way, Jose Abreu is 24th on the free agency list.

I have a sneaking feeling we get someone like Puig, Hicks, Ozuna or Josh Donaldson to be our Samardzija or Frazier...just a little hope, but not too much for the long-suffering fanbase.

We don’t even get a Khris Davis...it’s Abreu and Corey Dickerson no premier starting pitching.

 

Among 30-somethings, Jose Abreu is as good a bet to remain an above-average hitter going forward as anyone. His position will hurt him -- teams aren't paying big for first basemen nowadays -- and I'm sure teams will nickel and dime him in free agency given his age and the fact he hasn't come close to repeating is monster rookie season. Abreu will get paid though.  

2020 Team Prediction: White Sox. They've resisted trading Abreu as part of their rebuild thus far and they continue to praise his leadership ability, so it stands to reason they'll look to keep him beyond 2019. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see the two sides work out a contract extension before Abreu actually becomes a free agent.

One of the most surprising developments of 2018 was Corey Dickersonbecoming a legitimate Gold Glover. The various defensive metrics hated his fielding work every season of his career prior to 2018, then he rated as a top of the line left fielder. Like someone flipped the defensive value switch. Dickerson's a solid hitter and, if he shows his defensive improvement is for real this coming season, he'll set himself nicely going into free agency. 

2020 Team Prediction: White Sox. Some lower profile signings to advance the rebuild are on the horizon. 

team logo
 VIEW 
39. Tanner RoarkCIN • SP • 35
2020 SEASON AGE33

I feel like the perception of Tanner Roark is greater than the reality of Tanner Roark. There is absolutely value in being a league average workhorse, don't get me wrong. Roark has posted a better than league average ERA only once in the last four years through, and moving into a hitter friendly ballpark in Cincinnati this coming season could exacerbate his recent home run issues. His next contract will be one of those deals that either looks like a total steal halfway through the season, or a total bust. 

2020 Team Prediction: White Sox. Rebuilding teams always need someone to soak up innings.

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2 minutes ago, Bad Hombre said:

Quite the opposite actually. Personally, I was eager for the season to start so I can attend more games with Manny in tow. One last chance with Bryce, but seeing how well they handled the Manny negotiations, my confidence level is at 0. 

I told my 16yo baseball-playing ( and nominally White Sox fan) son about the Manny Machado fiasco, and his response was, "Wow. I forgot the White Sox existed."

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I left the stupid block Cincy C there (like the scarlet letter) because signing Abreu, Corey Dickerson and Tanner Roark makes us next year’s version of the Reds.

That’s what we really should be conditioned to expect, right?

Heck, might as well make it Puig, Roark and Alex Wood while we’re at it.  Taking Cincy castoffs is about what we deserve...we already tried Frazier, so why the hell not?

Reading lists like this just get more upsetting when Manny Freaking Machado was served up on a silver platter of perfect/pristine market conditions for even a mid-market mentality club. 

Edited by caulfield12

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And finally, one more take; If they can't redeem themselves through addition, maybe they should consider subtraction. Where is the accountability? If this off season results in nothing more than Jay, Alonso, Colome, Herrera, McCann, Nova, Guyer and Santana, after all that bravado about going after Machado and, or Harper, someone's "head should roll". How much money could they save by firing Hahn, or Williams? Maybe they could use that money to afford a real significant asset, if ownership seems so hard pressed to come up with the big bucks. Seeing some real accountability might reassure the fan base that this team is not the 'clown show,' as it is currently being characterized. I understand that it's probably Reinsdorf's fault, more than his front office, however no one can fire him, so the next best thing might be to fire one of those inept failures.

Well, I'm done. That felt good. I'm all better now. Carry on.

Edited by Lillian
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24 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Bonds won like 97 gold gloves in a row and he stole 600 bases. Can we please stop even using bonds as a barometer for Harper? 

Good grief.  Are you for real?  I never even did that.  And have stated so like what 3 times since you started being intentionally ignorant.  

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Out of curiosity if you all could sign JD Martinez at age 26 on the fa market knowing what his next 5 years would be what would you think is fair?

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3 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

No. Absolutely not. I'd give him 310, that's my max. I think Manny is the better player and would have given him more. Sox valued machado at 250. 

Harper has had more mediocre seasons than good/great ones. I think he'll be fine but with his defense dwindling and an injury history youd be nuts to give him 350 for just his baseball skills imo.

So, just want to be clear here.  You would go to 310.  So I assume over 10 years.  But you wouldn't go to 350.  You have been clear about those numbers.  Please think about them for a second.  

You would lose him for 4 million in AAV.  4 Million.  The difference is being able to sign Jon Jay.  That is insane.  Completely insane.  To lose a player like Harper over 4 mil per year.  How would the Sox better spend that 4 per year to help the team.  

I expect you'll ignore this and make some other reference to Bonds.  

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