caulfield12 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, Sockin said: Hahn doesn't believe they have to pay a "suck" tax. But the Padres really didn't have to either so whatever. They just paid the guy what he wanted. I said it earlier but they have to stop only making deals they feel comfortable with. They're so risk averse which I understand but when you're in the territory of making deals with star players they should be a little more open to what the player wants considering the circumstances. With this offseason they thought they would be able to get away with it considering the lack of suitors and it blew up in their faces. In the following offseasons they're going to need to take the risks they're so scared of with more competition. Otherwise they should just stop being in on free agents and stop talking about spending. Basically, just be the A’s or Rays...because how hard could that be for this front office? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 29 minutes ago, turnin' two said: So, just want to be clear here. You would go to 310. So I assume over 10 years. But you wouldn't go to 350. You have been clear about those numbers. Please think about them for a second. You would lose him for 4 million in AAV. 4 Million. The difference is being able to sign Jon Jay. That is insane. Completely insane. To lose a player like Harper over 4 mil per year. How would the Sox better spend that 4 per year to help the team. I expect you'll ignore this and make some other reference to Bonds. 40 million is two Marwins. It's not cheap. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: 40 million is two Marwins. It's not cheap. 40 million over 10 years is not 2 marwins. It's 10 Jon Jays (i originally got his contract wrong. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: 40 million is two Marwins. It's not cheap. Then WHO the HELL is good enough and appropriately valued for you next year? The way you’re going today, Jesus of Nazareth would get only $1.05 million in an arbitration hearing after being ripped a new one for three plus hours for basically being a redistributionist socialist and not as good a hitter as Barry Bonds to boot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, bmags said: 40 million over 10 years is not 2 marwins. It's 10 Jon Jays (i originally got his contract wrong. Or 80 Adam Engels... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 I dont think Bryce Harper is worth 350 million if manny was worth 300. I especially dont think the Sox should be interested if they though manny was worth only 250. I dont want the Sox to hurt themselves just to appease angry fans. That contract wouldnt be a good one. Mannyz was. Just because you fucked up with manny does not mean you should overspend for Harper - that's not how a good organization runs imo. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 24 minutes ago, bmags said: 40 million over 10 years is not 2 marwins. It's 10 Jon Jays (i originally got his contract wrong. Or its 4 years of marwins. It's a window piece for 4 or 5 years to assist the team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 29 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: 40 million is two Marwins. It's not cheap. I doubt his contract is deferred over 10 years. It is 40 million, that is correct. But over 10 years. 4/year. It isn't Marwin. It is having a Jon Jay caliber player on the team each year. I'd rather have Harper and an Engel sort, than miss out on Harper to save 4 mil/year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiddleCoastBias Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 25 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Or 80 Adam Engels... But who would win in a fight, 80 Adam Engels or 1 Bryce Harper, hmmmmm? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth G.O.A.T. Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: I dont think Bryce Harper is worth 350 million if manny was worth 300. I especially dont think the Sox should be interested if they though manny was worth only 250. I dont want the Sox to hurt themselves just to appease angry fans. That contract wouldnt be a good one. Mannyz was. Just because you fucked up with manny does not mean you should overspend for Harper - that's not how a good organization runs imo. If giving Manny 10 years, $300M was ok (and I agree it was 100%), giving Harper 10 years, $325 - 350M would be fine. Neither would hurt the team. Paying Harper that money is the equivlant to paying him $2.5 - 5M more per season. That isn't going to hinder any MLB team these days. From my perspective, paying either of those contracts would be fine. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Vision Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 The Padres got around the tax issue by making $20 mil of the first year's 30 a signing bonus (so not taxable in California), and reduced the risk of the contract by buying an insurance policy on it. Now that's creativity. Not whatever Hahn and company were trying to do with plate appearances in year 9. No reason that the Sox couldn't follow that blueprint and take out an insurance policy on Harper's contract, which could ease their minds about those last couple years. From the Machado offer, it definitely seems like it's the 10 years that's the problem, not the AAV. The Sox have some intriguing outfield prospects. I've enjoyed following their time in the minors so far. But to pass on Harper because you have Adolfo, Gonzalez, Rutherford, Basabe, and Walker is crazy talk. One of those guys might become a decent regular some day, but none will become even half the player that Harper is. Get Harper, continue to let those guys develop, then trade from that surplus to address an area of need. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Vision Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Those are some sour grapes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 I really can’t beleive this dude hasn’t signed yet. The longer this goes on, the more likely it becomes his deal is below Machado’s IMO. I’m sure everyone will call me crazy, but I think it’s a real possibility. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth G.O.A.T. Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Perfect Vision said: The Padres got around the tax issue by making $20 mil of the first year's 30 a signing bonus (so not taxable in California), and reduced the risk of the contract by buying an insurance policy on it. Now that's creativity. Not whatever Hahn and company were trying to do with plate appearances in year 9. No reason that the Sox couldn't follow that blueprint and take out an insurance policy on Harper's contract, which could ease their minds about those last couple years. From the Machado offer, it definitely seems like it's the 10 years that's the problem, not the AAV. The Sox have some intriguing outfield prospects. I've enjoyed following their time in the minors so far. But to pass on Harper because you have Adolfo, Gonzalez, Rutherford, Basabe, and Walker is crazy talk. One of those guys might become a decent regular some day, but none will become even half the player that Harper is. Get Harper, continue to let those guys develop, then trade from that surplus to address an area of need. I didn't find that to be overly creative to be honest. But at the end of the day, it got the deal done. Which is all that matters. MM will pay significant taxes post 2019. I believe players pay taxes based on where each individual game is played. He will be playing a significant number of games in San Diego (81 per season), LA, and San Francisco. Edited February 22, 2019 by Stealth G.O.A.T. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth G.O.A.T. Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Just now, Chicago White Sox said: I really can’t beleive this dude hasn’t signed yet. The longer this goes on, the more likely it becomes his deal is below Machado’s IMO. I’m sure everyone will call me crazy, but I think it’s a real possibility. I just don't think his deal will be smaller than Manny's. Regardless of the amount of time it takes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Vision Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Stealth G.O.A.T. said: I didn't find that to be overly creative to be honest. But at the end of the day, it got the deal done. Which is all that matters. MM will pay significant taxes post 2019. I believe layers pay taxes based on where each individual game is played. He will be playing a significant number of games in San Diego (81 per season), LA, and San Francisco. Yes but I imagine the idea with the signing bonus was to make whatever state taxes Manny has to pay with this contract somewhat equivalent to whatever Manny would have had to pay with the Sox contract. They found a way to get around the tax obstacle when everyone assumed they would have to offer substantially more money to make it even with the Sox offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Stealth G.O.A.T. said: I just don't think his deal will be smaller than Manny's. Regardless of the amount of time it takes. Yeah definitely higher in terms of AAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth G.O.A.T. Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, Perfect Vision said: Yes but I imagine the idea with the signing bonus was to make whatever state taxes Manny has to pay with this contract somewhat equivalent to whatever Manny would have had to pay with the Sox contract. They found a way to get around the tax obstacle when everyone assumed they would have to offer substantially more money to make it even with the Sox offer. That's possible. We obviously don't know what the White Sox contract would have looked like. I believe he would have had some kind of signing bonus though if he signed with the Sox. I guess we'll never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 17 minutes ago, turnin' two said: I doubt his contract is deferred over 10 years. It is 40 million, that is correct. But over 10 years. 4/year. It isn't Marwin. It is having a Jon Jay caliber player on the team each year. I'd rather have Harper and an Engel sort, than miss out on Harper to save 4 mil/year. This is correct. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenericUserName Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 16 minutes ago, Perfect Vision said: The Padres got around the tax issue by making $20 mil of the first year's 30 a signing bonus (so not taxable in California), and reduced the risk of the contract by buying an insurance policy on it. Now that's creativity. Not whatever Hahn and company were trying to do with plate appearances in year 9. No reason that the Sox couldn't follow that blueprint and take out an insurance policy on Harper's contract, which could ease their minds about those last couple years. From the Machado offer, it definitely seems like it's the 10 years that's the problem, not the AAV. The Sox have some intriguing outfield prospects. I've enjoyed following their time in the minors so far. But to pass on Harper because you have Adolfo, Gonzalez, Rutherford, Basabe, and Walker is crazy talk. One of those guys might become a decent regular some day, but none will become even half the player that Harper is. Get Harper, continue to let those guys develop, then trade from that surplus to address an area of need. Its almost guaranteed that the Sox were going to take out an insurance policy too. That is just like standard practice for contracts nowadays. Its actually kind of a point of contention with the owners about what counts as expenses with the owners basically saying that the insurance policies count as money spent on players even though the players don't see money from it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfect Vision Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, GenericUserName said: Its almost guaranteed that the Sox were going to take out an insurance policy too. That is just like standard practice for contracts nowadays. Its actually kind of a point of contention with the owners about what counts as expenses with the owners basically saying that the insurance policies count as money spent on players even though the players don't see money from it. Which makes the whole thing even more confusing. The plate appearance thing they were trying to do could mean only one of two things -- either they were concerned about Manny potentially missing a lot of time later in his career with injuries (a legitimate concern, but something covered by that insurance policy), or they had every intention of manipulating those plate appearance with a platoon partner or otherwise if Manny was under performing (in which case, yeah, no wonder no one wants to play for you). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Anyone who thinks the Sox are actually going to pay more for Harper are naive at best and suckers at worst. Why do we waste our time in this thread? 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Just now, Jack Parkman said: Anyone who thinks the Sox are actually going to pay more for Harper are naive at best and suckers at worst. Why do we waste our time in this thread? No one here really thinks that, though. Maybe a couple hopefuls is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth G.O.A.T. Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Just now, Jack Parkman said: Anyone who thinks the Sox are actually going to pay more for Harper are naive at best and suckers at worst. Why do we waste our time in this thread? True, but what else is there to talk about? Adam Engel? 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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