JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Just now, fathom said: Dodgers really should just try to build a super team. Their window is the next 2-years with Kershaw, Kenley and Turner. Which is why I think Rodon would be a good fit there. They've had great success with another fragile, formerly highly touted prospect in Rich Hill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Just now, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: You think so? In my mind I was thinking, Rodon = Verdugo and Wood; minor league filler taking on Kemp's salary = Ruiz. I may be overvaluing Rodon though. Wait you are saying trade Rodon for all of those guys? I don't think if I'm trying to build a contending team and just spent a bunch of money on Machado I'm moving who I believe is our only front line pitcher (Rodon). That said, I understand the risks with him and the fact that his peripherals weren't as good as they should have been. His stuff is just really good (and thankfully it looked good after he game back from his injury). But no, I'm not making that trade with Rodon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 21, 2018 Author Share Posted December 21, 2018 22 minutes ago, iamshack said: Not sure how opt-outs are handled in re: the tax, but front loading wouldn’t minimize aav... Sorry, I framed that up poorly. Let’s say you agree to the below hypothetical deal: Years 1 - 4: $50M per Opt-out Year 5 - 10: $20M per That deal would have an AAV of $32M. For luxury tax purposes, if the player were to opt-out, there is no way the Dodgers would get away with only realizing a $32M hit those first four either. Either the structured deal above would be treated as two separate contracts for luxury tax purposes (as if the post opt-out term is an option) or this would be adjusted retrospectively. My guess is it’s the former because tax payers forfeit different draft picks when signing tendered free agents, but that’s just me speculating. Regardless, there should no way to game the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Just now, Chisoxfn said: Wait you are saying trade Rodon for all of those guys? I don't think if I'm trying to build a contending team and just spent a bunch of money on Machado I'm moving who I believe is our only front line pitcher (Rodon). That said, I understand the risks with him and the fact that his peripherals weren't as good as they should have been. His stuff is just really good (and thankfully it looked good after he game back from his injury). But no, I'm not making that trade with Rodon. Oh yea, I was suggesting include Rodon to even it up. I'm just not a big believer in Rodon and the fact that he's a FA after the 2021 season doesn't help either. Even with Machado, I don't see this team competing until 2020 at the earliest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticky Stuff Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 My bad guys. I thought Wood was the salary dump. It’s Hill that I was thinking of. If the Sox take Hill and Kemp’s contracts from the Dodgers do they add Ruiz and Verdugo in the deal? What would the Sox have to give the Dodgers back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Now that the Manny tour is over.. how long do you think before he picks which team/money he wants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Just now, EvilJester99 said: Now that the Manny tour is over.. how long do you think before he picks which team/money he wants? The news about Machado preferring the Yankees if the money is similar is no surprise. I do not necessarily think the money will be the same, as both the Phillies and White Sox have incentive to outbid the Yankees in years and dollars. While neither Harper/Machado is a must sign at all costs, the message coming up short on both would send to the fanbase is not exactly a rosy picture. The organization has huge amounts of future payroll flexibility and cannot cry poor right now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 14 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Sorry, I framed that up poorly. Let’s say you agree to the below hypothetical deal: Years 1 - 4: $50M per Opt-out Year 5 - 10: $20M per That deal would have an AAV of $32M. For luxury tax purposes, if the player were to opt-out, there is no way the Dodgers would get away with only realizing a $32M hit those first four either. Either the structured deal above would be treated as two separate contracts for luxury tax purposes (as if the post opt-out term is an option) or this would be adjusted retrospectively. My guess is it’s the former because tax payers forfeit different draft picks when signing tendered free agents, but that’s just me speculating. Regardless, there should no way to game the system. Does it actually adjust? I don't believe that it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, steveno89 said: The news about Machado preferring the Yankees if the money is similar is no surprise. I do not necessarily think the money will be the same, as both the Phillies and White Sox have incentive to outbid the Yankees in years and dollars. While neither Harper/Machado is a must sign at all costs, the message coming up short on both would send to the fanbase is not exactly a rosy picture. The organization has huge amounts of future payroll flexibility and cannot cry poor right now. They should be must signs at this point. This organization needs a player of their caliber badly. And perfect time when the payroll will be low for a few years. Edited December 21, 2018 by soxfan2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Gload Fan Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 In case you needed a good chuckle: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 21, 2018 Author Share Posted December 21, 2018 1 minute ago, soxfan2014 said: Does it actually adjust? I don't believe that it does. It should or else teams would have a huge incentive to add tons of years for low salaries after an opt out. It would happen far more frequently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 21, 2018 Author Share Posted December 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said: They should be must signs at this point. This organization needs a player of their caliber badly. And perfect time when the payroll will be low for a few years. I agree, we need to land one of these guys no matter the cost. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Ross Gload Fan said: In case you needed a good chuckle: This is funny but the one of the things that bugs me about yesterday: why are people making a big deal about the door being locked to get into the stadium? Shouldn't it be expected that random people can't just walk in? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Gload Fan Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said: This is funny but the one of the things that bugs me about yesterday: why are people making a big deal about the door being locked to get into the stadium? Shouldn't it be expected that random people can't just walk in? lol He isn't exactly random. And they were expecting him lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Maybe kept it locked to keep the media out but why wouldn't you have someone at the door waiting to let him in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Ross Gload Fan said: He isn't exactly random. And they were expecting him lol They're expecting him and he's not random (not sure what point that even means since a random person can still walk in) but that doesn't mean keep the door unlocked lol someone would just open it when he gets there as someone did after he tried entering. Edited December 21, 2018 by soxfan2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 1 hour ago, soxfan2014 said: Like someone posted earlier this week, it would be incredible to sign Machado and then sort of help the Dodgers out by taking on 2 (or all 3) of Puig, Pederson, and Wood filling 3B with Machado, and then 2 OFs or an OF and a SP. What's so special about those 3 ? Puig and Wood are FA's in 2020 . Pederson in 2021 . That's 4 total years with the Sox between 3 players. . I'd want way better than that . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, EvilJester99 said: Maybe kept it locked to keep the media out but why wouldn't you have someone at the door waiting to let him in? Like Renteria was at the GRATE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: What's so special about those 3 ? Puig and Wood are FA's in 2020 . Pederson in 2021 . That's 4 total years with the Sox between 3 players. . I'd want way better than that . Those names get thrown out since they're not really crippling and easier to move than say an albatross contract or two. I'd only really do that deal if we landed Machado though since there isn't anything left on the FA market to plug holes with. Edited December 21, 2018 by soxfan2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 21, 2018 Author Share Posted December 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: What's so special about those 3 ? Puig and Wood are FA's in 2020 . Pederson in 2021 . That's 4 total years with the Sox between 3 players. . I'd want way better than that . I’m with you. I want long-term assets if I’m helping the Dodgers get Harper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Chisoxfn said: Picking up some of the Dodgers pieces and facilitating salary moves wouldn't necessarily be the end of the world, imo. I still think it is unlikely the Sox sign either of these guys. They are clearly doing the best they can, but it is an uphill battle when you are competing with the Yankees and Dodgers. I won't necessarily make the same statement with the Phillies, other then they are a better positioned team to win sooner (vs. Sox). And if the Sox don't win on Machado and Harper and instead get creative and absorb salary to obtain good prospects and/or other pieces (say get a Bellinger to go with a Kemp or something)...than I think that could actually end up better (from a pure baseball perspective). That may even be a superior strategy to signing Machado or Harper. But when in the world has this FO ever done such a thing? In a smaller scale, Alonso was exactly that type of player - a team trying to dump salary and Alonso a player barely over replacement making $8 million...the Sox sent a prospect. Edwin Jackson and Shields were clear salary dumps, and the Sox are shelling out the prospects (and in those cases, good ones). They just aren't that creative...and thus I hope they sign one of these guys, realizing the risk that they'll start shoveling prospects for 2 year vets (likely overrated vets) to build around them. Edited December 21, 2018 by GreenSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G&T Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 15 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said: They should be must signs at this point. This organization needs a player of their caliber badly. And perfect time when the payroll will be low for a few years. meh. Evidence suggests that these deals don't work out that great for any team. Frankly, getting one of them barely moves the needle on the rebuild timeline. This whole drama is related to team relevance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 At some point, they have to get with the times and sign a big free agent deal. What better time than when there are 2 26-years olds on the market? When will they get this opportunity again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 21, 2018 Author Share Posted December 21, 2018 One other plus in our cap for Machado is we now have three of his teammates from the 2017 WBC in Castillo, Colome, & Nova. We know he’s close with Welington, but maybe he’s got a strong connection with the other two guys as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said: Those names get thrown out since they're not really crippling and easier to move than say an albatross contract or two. I'd only really do that deal if we landed Machado though since there isn't anything left on the FA market to plug holes with. Those names should just be thrown out rather then thrown out there. They do nothing to help the rebuild. Would make us better in 2019 that's about it unless you just want to flip them. But Puig is a tough sell on anyone . Pederson and Wood coming to the AL I don't trust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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