Machado: Update - Manny, do you officially like us?

[KnightsOnMintSt]

I’m starting to believe that there is a very good chance that Manny is going to take considerably less money to play for the Yankees.

[fathom]

4 minutes ago, KnightsOnMintSt said:

I’m starting to believe that there is a very good chance that Manny is going to take considerably less money to play for the Yankees.

Less overall but higher AAV.  If he opts-out in 3 or 4 years, he wins.

[Chicago White Sox]

16 minutes ago, SCCWS said:

FWIW---Longtime beat writer Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe is usually a pretty good source on baseball.  He does not list the White Sox as finalists for either Machado or Harper.  Otherwise he has a lot of baseball stuff in today's Globe. 

 

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2018/12/29/baseball-top-free-agents-this-year-and-beyond/a538V444ifBDiTkVE3BNjI/story.html

That is just embarrassing reporting but par for the course for a hack like Cafardo.

[iamshack]

8 minutes ago, fathom said:

Less overall but higher AAV.  If he opts-out in 3 or 4 years, he wins.

I think it would be less AAV too. The Sox aren’t married to a 10 year deal on Machado if he’d prefer less. 

[Chicago White Sox]

Just to mess with fathom, another New York “insider” says Machado to Yankees:

 

[iWiN4PreP]

I just can't believe Machado would be the one to take less $$$ to play for the Yankees. 

 

If it's 8 years and say 275 that's about 35 per year. He wouldn't want to play for the White Sox for like 10 years 310 or something?? I don't know. There's so much smoke here it's hard to deny it now. Anyone have any news that states otherwise or that says all this is B.S. ?

[Chicago White Sox]

Just now, iWiN4PreP said:

I just can't believe Machado would be the one to take less $$$ to play for the Yankees. 

 

If it's 8 years and say 275 that's about 35 per year. He wouldn't want to play for the White Sox for like 10 years 310 or something?? I don't know. There's so much smoke here it's hard to deny it now. Anyone have any news that states otherwise or that says all this is B.S. ?

I really don’t think there is that much smoke here.  A bunch of wannabe New York “insiders” are jumping off of what Dan Clark reported.  And even with Jim Leyritz, he didn’t just come out and post what he did looking to break news, he was responding to a question some random person asked him.  This all could be real, but to me it still comes down to the validity of the Dan Clark report.

[iWiN4PreP]

Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

I really don’t think there is that much smoke here.  A bunch of wannabe New York “insiders” are jumping off of what Dan Clark reported.  And even with Jim Leyritz, he didn’t just come out and post what he did looking to break news, he was responding to a question some random person asked him.  This all could be real, but to me it still comes down to the validity of the Dan Clark report.

In the past 20 or so minutes here I've been researching some rumors/sites, and a lot of fronts are quiet on it.

There's no way that 8/250 or 8/280 is all it takes for Machado methinks. Gotta believe he's going the 10 years with a team. 

[pcq]

3 hours ago, iamshack said:

I feel very comfortable in saying that to not even mention the White Sox for either player means he doesn’t know shit.

Likely that many big markets rarely take Soxorg seriously based upon history.

[Chicago White Sox]

7 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

In the past 20 or so minutes here I've been researching some rumors/sites, and a lot of fronts are quiet on it.

There's no way that 8/250 or 8/280 is all it takes for Machado methinks. Gotta believe he's going the 10 years with a team. 

If the Yankees are offering 8/$280M with opt-outs, I think it would take something crazy from us or the Phillies to get him to pass up that opportunity.  I think we got to hope the Yankees cap out around 8/$240M unless we’re prepared to spend some really stupid money.

Edited December 31, 2018 by Chicago White Sox

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

8 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

If the Yankees are offering 8/$280M with opt-outs, I think it would take something crazy from us or the Phillies to get him to pass up that opportunity.  I think we got to hope the Yankees cap out around 8/$240M unless we’re prepared to spend some really stupid money.

Yep. At 8/$280M - that's around $35M per year. Even at $40M, I don't see how that would entice Machado away from the Yankees. And anything over $40M per year seems insane.

[joejoesox]

10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

If the Yankees are offering 8/$280M with opt-outs, I think it would take something crazy from us or the Phillies to get him to pass up that opportunity.  I think we got to hope the Yankees cap out around 8/$240M unless we’re prepared to spend some really stupid money.

we knew this already, a month ago

[Chicago White Sox]

2 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

Yep. At 8/$280M - that's around $35M per year. Even at $40M, I don't see how that would entice Machado away from the Yankees. And anything over $40M per year seems insane.

To me, the magic numbers for the Yankees are 8 years and a $35M AAV (which be record breaking).  If he gets both of those from New York, I think we’d have to offer around 10/$375M to have a chance.  I really think we need years and an AAV edge to convince him to not join the Yankees.

[Chicago White Sox]

11 minutes ago, joesaiditstrue said:

we knew this already, a month ago

There is a big difference between $325M & $375M and I don’t think we’d go much past the former.

[Dick Allen]

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

There is a big difference between $325M & $375M and I don’t think we’d go much past the former.

But why not? It is $5 million a year. The Sox have to decide if they want to be with the big boys or not. 

If the goal is sustained winning and multiple championships , that cannot be done with a mid market payroll. 

The best they could do if they aren’t going to throw a ton of money at it, is a run like Cleveland is doing now, or Detroit had or a couple of years like KC. But those aren’t all that sustained and usually quickly followed by prolonged awfulness.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

22 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

Yep. At 8/$280M - that's around $35M per year. Even at $40M, I don't see how that would entice Machado away from the Yankees. And anything over $40M per year seems insane.

I’d be so pissed if the Sox signed him for $40M+ AAV over 8 years. That’s “stupid” money and would be a huge mistake for a franchise like the Sox imo.

[caulfield12]

We need an owner who thinks of the Sox more like Ilitch with the Tigers.

He always put winning over balanced budgets.   Of course, we can argue even that wasn’t enough to get a World Series title and they’re being forced to rebuild with Miggy’s contract still on the books, but they had a really nice sustained run beginning with 2006 all the way up until the Royals and Indians passed them.

That said, with most franchises currently in the $1-3 billion range, it’s increasingly a sport for billionaire investment groups more concerned with ROI.

 

[caulfield12]

5 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

But why not? It is $5 million a year. The Sox have to decide if they want to be with the big boys or not. 

If the goal is sustained winning and multiple championships , that cannot be done with a mid market payroll. 

The best they could do if they aren’t going to throw a ton of money at it, is a run like Cleveland is doing now, or Detroit had or a couple of years like KC. But those aren’t all that sustained and usually quickly followed by prolonged awfulness.

Even the Cubs’ dynastic run is starting to show cracks in the foundation.

We’re not going to emulate the Astros, so it has to be the Brewers.  

They need the two nasty guys in the pen, to pull off a great trade for an MVP-caliber player (Yelich), the perfect FA signing in Cain, identify a blocked prospect in Aguilar (Thames in Japan, etc.) and supplemented with mid season veteran acquisitions like Moustakas.

That’s the more likely Sox path, but executing it is another matter entirely.  

It’s going to take franchises willing to dump talent in dubious circumstances (Raiders/Mack and Marlins’ fire-sale) to pull that off.  

Even then, Dee Gordon and Ozuna didn’t end up having close to the impact of Yelich.  But last offseason, you could have legitimately argued that Ozuna looked like the better player.  

Of course, the White Sox have never been in the business of assuming contracts like the one for Stanton, either.

[Chicago White Sox]

19 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

But why not? It is $5 million a year. The Sox have to decide if they want to be with the big boys or not. 

If the goal is sustained winning and multiple championships , that cannot be done with a mid market payroll. 

The best they could do if they aren’t going to throw a ton of money at it, is a run like Cleveland is doing now, or Detroit had or a couple of years like KC. But those aren’t all that sustained and usually quickly followed by prolonged awfulness.

I totally agree with you, I’m just speculating what I think our front office will do and I worry they don’t think they’ll need to outbid the Yankees by that much. 

[Chicago White Sox]

38 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

I’d be so pissed if the Sox signed him for $40M+ AAV over 8 years. That’s “stupid” money and would be a huge mistake for a franchise like the Sox imo.

What else do you supposed doing with this money?

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

9 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Even the Cubs’ dynastic run is starting to show cracks in the foundation.

We’re not going to emulate the Astros, so it has to be the Brewers.  

They need the two nasty guys in the pen, to pull off a great trade for an MVP-caliber player (Yelich), the perfect FA signing in Cain, identify a blocked prospect in Aguilar (Thames in Japan, etc.) and supplemented with mid season veteran acquisitions like Moustakas.

That’s the more likely Sox path, but executing it is another matter entirely.  

It’s going to take franchises willing to dump talent in dubious circumstances (Raiders/Mack and Marlins’ fire-sale) to pull that off.  

Even then, Dee Gordon and Ozuna didn’t end up having close to the impact of Yelich.  But last offseason, you could have legitimately argued that Ozuna looked like the better player.  

Of course, the White Sox have never been in the business of assuming contracts like the one for Stanton, either.

The Brewers were a playoff contender even before the Yelich trade and Cain signing. Of course those moves put them over the top but it’s not like the Sox have to trade for an MVP and sign a 6 WAR player for $16MM AAV as their only path to the playoffs. If these prospects (and future draftees) are as good as advertised.

I’m more concerned about the future rotation than the everyday lineup. They need at least 2 of the young guys to consistently provide 180+ innings and #2/#3 type numbers. Without that, they aren’t going anywhere as we’ve seen how difficult it is to hit on FA pitcher signings. My suspicion is that they’re going to have to trade for one in a couple years. I’m also hoping Rodon has a strong first half so they can sell high on him in July. Probably their last opportunity to unload a veteran with less than 3 years of control (at the time of the trade) that actually brings back a nice return. I don’t see this team competing until 2021 (unless they sign both Manny and Bryce, not happening) so I see very little reason for holding on to him if he has strong trade value 6 months from now.

[TheTruth05]

21 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I totally agree with you, I’m just speculating what I think our front office will do and I worry they don’t think they’ll need to outbid the Yankees by that much. 

If this FO is acting like they didn’t know they would have to do this they need to be let go immediately (I know Reinsdorf won’t do it) but this kind of thinking is ridiculous from an FO with no playoffs in a decade+

Edited December 31, 2018 by TheTruth05

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

What else do you supposed doing with this money?

It depends what type of budget JR is permitting. Assuming it’s $150MM or less, I think it’s insane to tie up more than 25% of your total payroll in one player. I just mentioned in the post above but I envision a trade or two for an established starting pitcher. Also, they need to address the catching position at some point soon. I don’t know what options are available but I don’t have confidence that any of the guys currently in the organization will be average to above average starters two years from now.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Xander Bogaerts would look great in a White Sox uniform in 2020. What type of salary is he expected to command next winter? I can’t imagine it would be anywhere near Machado and he’s the same age as Machado but they wouldn’t have to “waste” a year paying him in 2019.

[Flash]

Maybe this was touched on but if Yankees prevail with Machado, would it make sense to offer Alonso to them? Guessing he might bring a decent return, especially if Manny makes a case for him.