Sox interested in Encarnacion per Morosi

[caulfield12]

44 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

The smarter ones (Indians) were also the ones to sign these guys in the first place...even the smart guys makes mistakes. Indians are still stuck with Santana and his remaining salary though. No one’s going to lose sleep over one year of Alonso at around $10M.

That Santana deal isn’t going to matter much the next 2-3 seasons...I’ve said all offseason the Indians were going to end up in a better ultimate position for 2020-2022 than has been the conventional wisdom.

Kipnis is their last bad contract, and this is his final year, with a buyout for next.

[Balta1701]

4 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

3.3 fWAR for $33.5M over two years? I can think of a better way for the Sox to allocate their resources.

That's...not bad at all on the free agent market. That's about what I expect to be average value.

[caulfield12]

6 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

3.3 fWAR for $33.5M over two years? I can think of a better way for the Sox to allocate their resources.

That will be the case for every DH or 1B because of how WAR works.

3.3 x 9 isn’t off by much.  

Win now move, but any team in the AL can fall victim to Houston, Boston and the Yankees.  Plus, the Indians didn’t get any competition inside their own division down the stretch.

Not unlike our moves for Thome and Javy in 2006.  Win some, lose some.

Edited December 29, 2018 by caulfield12

[bmags]

Regardless, I’m not talking about encarnacion exclusively. Corey Dickerson, CJ Cron, Jose Martinez, maybe Sox are looking for their Jesus Aguilar but these guys keep getting shedded all over.

[fathom]

Just now, bmags said:

Regardless, I’m not talking about encarnacion exclusively. Corey Dickerson, CJ Cron, Jose Martinez, maybe Sox are looking for their Jesus Aguilar but these guys keep getting shedded all over.

Still wish they were in on Pham last year. Guess they were too busy creating boxes for Eloy to check.

[caulfield12]

3 minutes ago, bmags said:

Regardless, I’m not talking about encarnacion exclusively. Corey Dickerson, CJ Cron, Jose Martinez, maybe Sox are looking for their Jesus Aguilar but these guys keep getting shedded all over.

Shedded

To get extremely drunk and forget/lose everything.

He got shedded last night: He lost his keys, phone and dignity and ended up having to sleep in the shed until his girlfriend got home.

 

Weve been talking about Dickerson for ages...and Martinez would probably end up hitting more like his father did for the Sox in the late 80’s.

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, fathom said:

Still wish they were in on Pham last year. Guess they were too busy creating boxes for Eloy to check.

And plotting every single roster domino to fall in the Machado Sweepstakes...Of course, in that scenario, Pham would currently be bagging on the fan support at GRF, just like he did with the Trop.

He seems to wear out his welcome everywhere he goes.

Edited December 29, 2018 by caulfield12

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

That's...not bad at all on the free agent market. That's about what I expect to be average value.

For a team with the budgetary constraints of the Indians they needed more. Not every situation is comparable. When you are operating with a budget in the low to mid $100M it’s far different than a budget like the cubs or Red Sox where sure ~1 fWAR for $10M on a free agent signing is acceptable.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Let me say it a different way since the Sox have similar budgetary constraints as the Indians, generally speaking. When the Sox sign Harper, will you be satisfied if he puts up 14 fWAR at a cost of $140M over the next 4 years? 

[caulfield12]

11 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

For a team with the budgetary constraints of the Indians they needed more. Not every situation is comparable. When you are operating with a budget in the low to mid $100M it’s far different than a budget like the cubs or Red Sox where sure ~1 fWAR for $10M on a free agent signing is acceptable.

Five playoff appearances in a row (assuming 2019, unless MIN pulls off a miracle) with that midmarket payroll is pretty, pretty good.

Edited December 29, 2018 by caulfield12

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Five division titles in a row (assuming 2019, unless MIN pulls off a miracle) with that midmarket payroll is pretty, pretty good.

Not arguing their success. They’ve been great. Simply saying that even strong FO’s make mistakes, which I stand by my statement that signing Edwin was a mistake for that particular team because I believe their limited financial resources could have been better allocated to improve other areas of weakness.

[GreenSox]

2 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Not arguing their success. They’ve been great. Simply saying that even strong FO’s make mistakes,

No doubt - they just make numerous times the number of good moves that can overcome the bad.
Luhnow has made a number of questionable trades (which is one reason I want Hahn to deal with him).  But boy can they identify and develop amateur talent....

[Balta1701]

22 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Let me say it a different way since the Sox have similar budgetary constraints as the Indians, generally speaking. When the Sox sign Harper, will you be satisfied if he puts up 14 fWAR at a cost of $140M over the next 4 years? 

Honestly, yeah I'd be ok with that. 

[Balta1701]

13 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Not arguing their success. They’ve been great. Simply saying that even strong FO’s make mistakes, which I stand by my statement that signing Edwin was a mistake for that particular team because I believe their limited financial resources could have been better allocated to improve other areas of weakness.

Using hindsight yes - it would have been better for them to upgrade their bullpen, but literally no one saw its collapse last year coming until it happened. In 2017 - they won 102 games. They got beaten by a tough Yankees team, but they were as good as any team in the league. Kluber was as good as any pitcher in the league, on normal rest, and he gave up a couple big HR early in game 5. A better game from Kluber and maybe we're talking about that deal as the price of a title that year.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Honestly, yeah I'd be ok with that. 

You have low expectations I suppose. I’d be very disappointed if Harper averaged 3.5 fWAR over the next four years.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Just now, Balta1701 said:

Using hindsight yes - it would have been better for them to upgrade their bullpen, but literally no one saw its collapse last year coming until it happened. In 2017 - they won 102 games. They got beaten by a tough Yankees team, but they were as good as any team in the league. Kluber was as good as any pitcher in the league, on normal rest, and he gave up a couple big HR early in game 5. A better game from Kluber and maybe we're talking about that deal as the price of a title that year.

Not in hindsight. The Indians have had glaring holes in the outfield and at 2b/3b (wherever JR wasn’t playing) since 2016. They would have been much better served upgrading those positions than DH. That’s not hindsight. Anyone that watched the 2016 World Series could recognize those glaring holes, ones that likely cost them the title.

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

You have low expectations I suppose. I’d be very disappointed if Harper averaged 3.5 fWAR over the next four years.

That performance is better than anything the White Sox have gotten from their free agent spending this decade. I'd like to see better than that obviously, but at the very least if he's doing that then we have added a force to the middle of the lineup.

[Bob Sacamano]

2 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Not in hindsight. The Indians have had glaring holes in the outfield and at 2b/3b (wherever JR wasn’t playing) since 2016. They would have been much better served upgrading those positions than DH. That’s not hindsight. Anyone that watched the 2016 World Series could recognize those glaring holes, ones that likely cost them the title.

Couldn't really upgrade 2B with Kipnis contract there.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

3 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

Couldn't really upgrade 2B with Kipnis contract there.

I understand that if they weren’t willing to eat some money to move him but their OF, particularly CF and RF, have been a black hole for several years now. I imagine ~$17M/ year would have been better spent upgrading those positions than DH. They were relying on a young unproven player in Zimmer to man CF (probably not the best idea when you are all in) and an odd collection of guys in RF. It was painful watching Chisenhall “play” RF in the World Series.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

14 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

That performance is better than anything the White Sox have gotten from their free agent spending this decade. I'd like to see better than that obviously, but at the very least if he's doing that then we have added a force to the middle of the lineup.

Just because they’ve been terrible with free agent signings in the past doesn’t mean I’d be happy with that type of production from a guy accounting for ~30% of the total team payroll. You’re saying this now but you wouldn’t be happy either. That’s basically Jose Abreu production from 2014-2017 but at a cost of $100M more.

[bmags]

5 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Just because they’ve been terrible with free agent signings in the past doesn’t mean I’d be happy with that type of production from a guy accounting for ~30% of the total team payroll. You’re saying this now but you wouldn’t be happy either. That’s basically Jose Abreu production from 2014-2017 but at a cost of $100M more.

When the Sox are at a 90 win core I am fine with them spending above rate to squeeze additional wins onto the roster.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

13 minutes ago, bmags said:

When the Sox are at a 90 win core I am fine with them spending above rate to squeeze additional wins onto the roster.

If the Sox have a 90 win core but a relative black hole in CF, RF, or 3b but instead elected to squeeze an additional win out of the DH position, I’d be really upset.

[Bob Sacamano]

1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

If the Sox have a 90 win core but a relative black hole in CF, RF, or 3b but instead elected to squeeze an additional win out of the DH position, I’d be really upset.

Depends on what's available, but yeah me too.

[bmags]

11 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

If the Sox have a 90 win core but a relative black hole in CF, RF, or 3b but instead elected to squeeze an additional win out of the DH position, I’d be really upset.

Depends on what’s available. I’d rather keep getting .850 ops out of DH than try to improve center field from .700 to .740. Also black hole is pretty strong.

[pcq]

22 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

Or it could be that the Sox and Astros have a deal in place for Abreu. Jose can go to the playoffs  with Houston and come right back in 2020. 

I would say Harpo catching for the Sox is more likely. Sorry.