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BamaDoc

Senzel/Suarez

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I was thinking about this is regard to no Machado/Harper thread.  That thread has gotten so long I wanted to split this out to get opinions.  Nick Senzel is the Reds top prospect, 60 FV, #6 overall in baseball per MLB.  That is just behind Eloy and ahead of Kopech for reference.  He is a third baseman which we certainly could use.  He is blocked at the MLB level to the point that they are talking of trying to get his bat in at 2b or even CF.  Suarez is ahead of him at third.  A 4 plus WAR player, signed to a six year extension at 60 million.  The Reds seem to be interested in going for it rather than rebuilding so while I would be happy to get Suarez, they probably keep him.  They seem to be looking for more pitching and CF.  While I don't see a MLB ready Sox CF player could Carlos Rodon and a mid prospect get something done?  If they wanted prospects would you substitute Cease for Rodon?  Just wanted to toss this out but it seems like they could move one of their controlled third basemen rather than play Senzel out of position.  They would still have India in the pipeline for down the road.(I consider India to far from MLB to target at present).  

So something along     Rodon + Basabe or Walker for Senzel or Suarez(May have to add more if Suarez with 6 yrs control )

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It's just so rare that top 10 prospects are traded. I don't see it happening tbh. Especially for rodon and basabe. 

Edited by Hot FiRe

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3 minutes ago, BamaDoc said:

I was thinking about this is regard to no Machado/Harper thread.  That thread has gotten so long I wanted to split this out to get opinions.  Nick Senzel is the Reds top prospect, 60 FV, #6 overall in baseball per MLB.  That is just behind Eloy and ahead of Kopech for reference.  He is a third baseman which we certainly could use.  He is blocked at the MLB level to the point that they are talking of trying to get his bat in at 2b or even CF.  Suarez is ahead of him at third.  A 4 plus WAR player, signed to a six year extension at 60 million.  The Reds seem to be interested in going for it rather than rebuilding so while I would be happy to get Suarez, they probably keep him.  They seem to be looking for more pitching and CF.  While I don't see a MLB ready Sox CF player could Carlos Rodon and a mid prospect get something done?  If they wanted prospects would you substitute Cease for Rodon?  Just wanted to toss this out but it seems like they could move one of their controlled third basemen rather than play Senzel out of position.  They would still have India in the pipeline for down the road.(I consider India to far from MLB to target at present).  

So something along     Rodon + Basabe or Walker for Senzel or Suarez(May have to add more if Suarez with 6 yrs control )

Gonna take a LOT more than that, if they would even consider it. I know they had Senzel in the OF, but who knows with Puig and Kemp now.

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4 minutes ago, Hot FiRe said:

It's just so rare that top 10 prospects are traded. I don't see it happening tbh. Especially for rodon and basabe. 

And when they do get traded, it's for good, controllable MLB players.

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I wouldn't trade Cease or Rodon . Rodon may yet break out. Have to wait on him. Us or the Reds shouldn't be moving good prospects. Like it or not we have to wait. Usually it's the guy already in the majors traded for prospects so Rodon for an untested Senzel seems out of place though some  are suggesting he wouldn't be enough. Hopefully Rodon has a nice 1st half and see what we can get at the trade deadline. I've still got my fingers crossed for Machado and if not him Arenado or Rendon next year. With plenty of payroll space just no need to deal prospects or a guy who still has a chance to be a TOR pitcher.

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5 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I wouldn't trade Cease or Rodon . Rodon may yet break out. Have to wait on him. Us or the Reds shouldn't be moving good prospects. Like it or not we have to wait. Usually it's the guy already in the majors traded for prospects so Rodon for an untested Senzel seems out of place though some  are suggesting he wouldn't be enough. Hopefully Rodon has a nice 1st half and see what we can get at the trade deadline. I've still got my fingers crossed for Machado and if not him Arenado or Rendon next year. With plenty of payroll space just no need to deal prospects or a guy who still has a chance to be a TOR pitcher.

Rodon's potential would be the allure for Cincy as they can't pay top dollar or get FA pitchers in there.  Rodon has three years of control vs at least six years in the return so I thought something might have to go back their way.  Just spit ballin'.  If Anderson/Moncada develop  the reverse situation may present itself in Madrigal (please everyone don't hijack into a Madrigal discussion) one day.

Edited by BamaDoc

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I really have zero interest in trading Rodon unless someone wants to act like he’s an ace. I’d probably do it for Senzel, but Reds don’t do that deal. 

Rodon still has the chance to be an absolute stud. 

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Scooter gennett is in his final year so unless they don't extend him the senzel could just slide over to 2nd base.

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Cost controlled young prospects are like gold to a small market organization like Cincy.

Rodon is going to get more expensive, and there’s no reason to be confident in his health or consistency...other than their staff having a better strategy to unlock his potential or simply improving from a move to the NL.  

Actually, with the lack of quality in our division, he might struggle even more facing three really strong lineups (more frequently) over there in Milwaukee, Chicago and StL.

It’s not exactly a pitcher friendly park, and he tends to give up a ton of fly balls.

 

Imagine our reaction if someone wanted to acquire Jimenez for their version of Rodon...considering we’ve failed to put a homegrown superstar on the field everyday for over two decades now.

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1 minute ago, BamaDoc said:

Rodon's potential would be the allure for Cincy as they can't pay top dollar or get FA pitchers in there.  Rodon has three years of control vs at least six years in the return so I thought something might have to go back their way.  Just spit ballin'.  If Anderson/Moncada develop  the reverse situation may present itself in Madrigal (please everyone don't hijack into a Madrigal discussion) one day.

I'm great with you spitballin'. It might be Ok for Cincy but it would be selling low on our part. Rodon would be worth so much more if he can put it all together. Right now he's just another guy who needs to stay healthy and start showing why he was drafted so high. He's done it in spurts in a few different seasons. Just needs to be consistently good.

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11 minutes ago, BamaDoc said:

Rodon's potential would be the allure for Cincy as they can't pay top dollar or get FA pitchers in there.  Rodon has three years of control vs at least six years in the return so I thought something might have to go back their way.  Just spit ballin'.  If Anderson/Moncada develop  the reverse situation may present itself in Madrigal (please everyone don't hijack into a Madrigal discussion) one day.

Would you stake your GM job on “potential” for Rodon, versus, “this is what he is, like it or not”?

He’s the LH Javy V., but with less durability.

If I’m the Reds, I go after someone like Sonny Gray (with a salary subsidy) or even Jonathan Gray without having to deal Senzel.  

The Reds can always go after a FA pitcher next offseason depending on how competitive they are this year.

Edited by caulfield12

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Just ask yourself what you'd want for Eloy in any potential trade. That is what the Reds and Reds fans would want for Senzel. 

 

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Would anyone trade Eloy Jimenez for Jonathan Gray?

That’s the equivalent, were the Sox in “win now” mode.  Of course, they couldn’t compete without Jimenez’s bat.   The Reds have a much better offense, but, from a talent standpoint, Gray is more accomplished and has done his work in Colorado.

We might as well trade Rodon for Gray and hope Cooper can work a miracle.

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7 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

if we could trade Rodon and Basabe for Senzel I'd do backflips. It'd take a lot more imo

Yeah he isn't getting moved for anything less than an established front of the rotation arm. It would be dumb to deal for him lesser prospects.

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19 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

Just ask yourself what you'd want for Eloy in any potential trade. That is what the Reds and Reds fans would want for Senzel. 

 

Exactly.

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55 minutes ago, aeichhor said:

Scooter gennett is in his final year so unless they don't extend him the senzel could just slide over to 2nd base.

And Senzel was moved to second last season so the reds have plans for Senzel at second. If they don't trade Gennett by the end of ST they stash Senzel at AAA and trade Gennett by the deadline.

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If you're  trying for a 3B from the Reds, go for India. You'd actually be able to do a prospect swap instead of what Senzel would cost

 

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8 minutes ago, BlackSox13 said:

And Senzel was moved to second last season so the reds have plans for Senzel at second. If they don't trade Gennett by the end of ST they stash Senzel at AAA and trade Gennett by the deadline.

They were also gonna give him some time in the outfield during the Arizona Fall Lg. but he got hurt before it started.

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I see Rodon making maybe 25 starts. He will be challenged to sustain a full workload. 

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I've always thought the Sox and Reds would make good trade partners. The Reds need pitching. The Sox have plenty of that. The Sox need a quality 3rd baseman. The Reds have several guys that fit that mold. I think there's potential for a deal.

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7 minutes ago, Whitesox27 said:

I've always thought the Sox and Reds would make good trade partners. The Reds need pitching. The Sox have plenty of that. The Sox need a quality 3rd baseman. The Reds have several guys that fit that mold. I think there's potential for a deal.

I think Jonathan India would be a more realistic, and easier player to acquire, maybe for a prospect-swap with Dunning. But I would also love for them to shoot for someone like Senzel first, and then if the Reds are asking more than Cease + backend top 10 guy, then maneuver down to India.

Given our strength of pitching, I think Dunning for India is something I would do.

Edited by ChiliIrishHammock24

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