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Levine: Sox won't offer more than 7 years for either player

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3 minutes ago, bmags said:

It's so funny how loss averse i am with this. You don't want either to sign first away from sox because it will feel desperate, but originally I wanted harper, then we get alonso and I wanted machado, but now hearing we are still in on harper makes me revert back to wanting harper.

Really just want one. They are both good. But I can't spend attention on both it seems :)

I think Machado is the better player and a position of need for the Sox, Harper is the bigger get. No better way to step out of the shadows than to land the current face of baseball. Machado gets fans excited, but landing Harper and having a White Sox player on video game covers and be the leading vote-getter in the ASG for the next 8 years or so is on a different level.

I'd be happy with either guy. I think the Sox jump at whoever goes for them first, obviously. But they could sign both! Both of these guys are getting opt-out clauses. At least one of them would be gone by the time they have to start paying their current youngsters. The only way it backfires is if they both turn into Heyward. I'd roll the dice if I were the Sox, but then again, I'm a dope who isn't in a position to spend $700 million.

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26 minutes ago, bmags said:

Theirs did not have near the years that Heyward has, and Kemp was actually terrific last year.

And Puig and the pitcher are also good players...Heyward is a fourth OF.

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1 minute ago, Roughneck said:

I think Machado is the better player and a position of need for the Sox, Harper is the bigger get. No better way to step out of the shadows than to land the current face of baseball. Machado gets fans excited, but landing Harper and having a White Sox player on video game covers and be the leading vote-getter in the ASG for the next 8 years or so is on a different level.

I'd be happy with either guy. I think the Sox jump at whoever goes for them first, obviously. But they could sign both! Both of these guys are getting opt-out clauses. At least one of them would be gone by the time they have to start paying their current youngsters. The only way it backfires is if they both turn into Heyward. I'd roll the dice if I were the Sox, but then again, I'm a dope who isn't in a position to spend $700 million.

They both help the Sox equally, just in different ways. Sox absolutely have a glaring hole at 3B, but if they locked up Harper, there’s nothing stopping them from moving the minor league OF depth in some prospect for prospect swaps. 

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4 minutes ago, Roughneck said:

I think Machado is the better player and a position of need for the Sox, Harper is the bigger get. No better way to step out of the shadows than to land the current face of baseball. Machado gets fans excited, but landing Harper and having a White Sox player on video game covers and be the leading vote-getter in the ASG for the next 8 years or so is on a different level.

I'd be happy with either guy. I think the Sox jump at whoever goes for them first, obviously. But they could sign both! Both of these guys are getting opt-out clauses. At least one of them would be gone by the time they have to start paying their current youngsters. The only way it backfires is if they both turn into Heyward. I'd roll the dice if I were the Sox, but then again, I'm a dope who isn't in a position to spend $700 million.

Except Machado is the better all around baseball player, and plays a position that is of much greater need over the course of the contract.  MM is a plus defender whereas Harper is not.  Harper may have more offensive upside, but he certainly hasn't played to it in recent seasons.  I also think Harper is going to be more inclined to sign with a traditional power.  Video game covers and ASG votes aren't nearly as important to me (not important at all, frankly) as being a better baseball player and better long term fit for this organization to develop into a perennial playoff team.  MM certainly isn't without risks at this level of commitment, but I think its really not even close as to which guy is the better fit for the White Sox moving forward. 

Getting Machado signed certainly can't hurt with the Sox chances of getting Harper as well, if they keep their offer on the table to him post-MM signing.  

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25 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

How do you figure out what number to put on that?

haha either 19 for the year or combine whatever numbers they wear for us

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4 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Except Machado is the better all around baseball player, and plays a position that is of much greater need over the course of the contract.  MM is a plus defender whereas Harper is not.  Harper may have more offensive upside, but he certainly hasn't played to it in recent seasons.  I also think Harper is going to be more inclined to sign with a traditional power.  Video game covers and ASG votes aren't nearly as important to me (not important at all, frankly) as being a better baseball player and better long term fit for this organization to develop into a perennial playoff team.  MM certainly isn't without risks at this level of commitment, but I think its really not even close as to which guy is the better fit for the White Sox moving forward. 

Getting Machado signed certainly can't hurt with the Sox chances of getting Harper as well, if they keep their offer on the table to him post-MM signing.  

That's literally what I said. And obviously video games and ASG starts don't help the team at all, but Harper is undeniably the national face of baseball now. It would mean a lot to have a White Sox hat sit atop that face. The Sox fanbase is complicated. It's largely dormant and made up of miserable SOBs who are conditioned to eat crap and not care. There is a sizable portion which hates Reinsdorf. There were people (I know a few) who gave up on the Sox after the '94 strike, blaming Jerry and refusing to give a cent or care about the team as long as he was the owner. And not all of those people came back for the World Series. I think landing Harper is the type of move that says "we are changing the way this franchise operates" more than signing Machado does. I think Harper is the bigger deal for fan perception.

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2 minutes ago, Roughneck said:

That's literally what I said. And obviously video games and ASG starts don't help the team at all, but Harper is undeniably the national face of baseball now. It would mean a lot to have a White Sox hat sit atop that face. The Sox fanbase is complicated. It's largely dormant and made up of miserable SOBs who are conditioned to eat crap and not care. There is a sizable portion which hates Reinsdorf. There were people (I know a few) who gave up on the Sox after the '94 strike, blaming Jerry and refusing to give a cent or care about the team as long as he was the owner. And not all of those people came back for the World Series. I think landing Harper is the type of move that says "we are changing the way this franchise operates" more than signing Machado does. I think Harper is the bigger deal for fan perception.

I think that is all fair.  I just think winning is the best thing for fan perception.  Signing Harper to a $350M+ megadeal for him to provide 3.5 fWAR over the next 4-5 seasons (which is about what he has averaged his last 3), probably isn't going to make the Sox a WS contender.  He is likely a 1B or DH by the mid point of his contact, and even if he sticks in the corner OF, that is easily the deepest position of Sox prospects.  

Look, I'd love to get Harper.  I just much prefer Machado.  Getting both would obviously be a dream come true. 

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Just now, Roughneck said:

That's literally what I said. And obviously video games and ASG starts don't help the team at all, but Harper is undeniably the national face of baseball now. It would mean a lot to have a White Sox hat sit atop that face. The Sox fanbase is complicated. It's largely dormant and made up of miserable SOBs who are conditioned to eat crap and not care. There is a sizable portion which hates Reinsdorf. There were people (I know a few) who gave up on the Sox after the '94 strike, blaming Jerry and refusing to give a cent or care about the team as long as he was the owner. And not all of those people came back for the World Series. I think landing Harper is the type of move that says "we are changing the way this franchise operates" more than signing Machado does. I think Harper is the bigger deal for fan perception.

Look, we really can’t go wrong either player given where the organization stands today.  IMO, Machado is the safer player because he’s an all-around talent who provides consistent 6 win production and fills a much bigger organizational hole.  

That being said, Harper probaly has the higher ceiling if 100% healthy & locked-in with the bat.  Unfortunately he’s incredibly inconsistent, struggles to stay healthy, & his defense (while better than he showed last year) is at a very minimum not good.  

Production wise Machado is far more likely to live up to his contract.  There is no denying the intangibles Bryce brings to the table and for a team like us I think his marketability could be worth half his contract.  And that’s a big reason why even though I’m not expecting both guys, I think it’s most definitely a possibility and something the front office will pursue if the the dollar are right.

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7 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I think that is all fair.  I just think winning is the best thing for fan perception.  Signing Harper to a $350M+ megadeal for him to provide 3.5 fWAR over the next 4-5 seasons (which is about what he has averaged his last 3), probably isn't going to make the Sox a WS contender.  He is likely a 1B or DH by the mid point of his contact, and even if he sticks in the corner OF, that is easily the deepest position of Sox prospects.  

Look, I'd love to get Harper.  I just much prefer Machado.  Getting both would obviously be a dream come true. 

Yep. My only hesitation about signing Machado is that he is kind of a dick and isn't a leader or a good example. This is a young clubhouse without any vocal leaders, and I think Machado immediately becomes the leader of the team due to a giant contract. If the Sox do get Machado, I think they need to bring in a no-nonsense graybeard to set the tone in the clubhouse. Kinda like Carl Everett, but not an asshole.

Edited by Roughneck
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8 minutes ago, Roughneck said:

Yep. My only hesitation about signing Machado is that he is kind of a dick and isn't a leader or a good example. This is a young clubhouse without any vocal leaders, and I think Machado immediately becomes the leader of the team due to a giant contract. If the Sox do get Machado, I think they need to bring in a no-nonsense graybeard to set the tone in the clubhouse. Kinda like Carl Everett, but not an asshole.

Machado is definitely a bit of a douche, but he also plays with passion.  He cares about winning.  The hard slides into 2B and the jawing at other players shows he cares.  That is the type of stuff that was lauded and respected 20-30 years ago.  Now in today's pattycake world he's considered a dirty player (the ankle step was a dirty play and he obviously should not have done that).  But that type of stuff used to be commonplace.  Generally speaking, baseball has become a pretty soft game, and he is one of the few old school type players left.  

Like AJ was for the White Sox - he's a dbag, but he could be OUR dbag.  But he just so happens to be one of the best all around players in the game.  I am not really worried about him being a clubhouse problem at all. This team could certainly play with a bit more fire.  

Edited by ChiSox59
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58 minutes ago, Tony said:

fathom has to be going NUTS right now :) 

Him an Dick Allen. Too much positive Sox news in one day.

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10 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Machado is definitely a bit of a douche, but he also plays with passion.  He cares about winning.  The hard slides into 2B and the jawing at other players shows he cares.  That is the type of stuff that was lauded and respected 20-30 years ago.  Now in today's pattycake world he's considered a dirty player (the ankle step was a dirty play and he obviously should not have done that).  But that type of stuff used to be commonplace.  Generally speaking, baseball has become a pretty soft game, and he is one of the few old school type players left.  

Like AJ was for the White Sox - he's a dbag, but he could be OUR dbag.  But he just so happens to be one of the best all around players in the game.  I am not really worried about him being a clubhouse problem at all. This team could certainly play with a bit more fire.  

But AJ was never the leader of the Sox. After 2005, Konerko was the leader, but he was a shitty leader who mostly grumbled and got pissed off whenever someone else tried to lead. I was pissed at Everett at his comments when he left, but I do believe in retrospect that he was somewhat right about the team not having leaders in 2006. Orlando Cabrera, despite being a huge jag-off, was a leader. That's part of the reason why he butted so many heads in the locker room. I'll always remember Konerko getting pissed and putting Chris Getz into purgatory for having the audacity to say the team was helped by young talent coming up.

Anyway, I'd love to have Macado but think the Sox need to pair him with a strong veteran presence, even if it's a crappy player like a David Ross.

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24 minutes ago, Roughneck said:

Yep. My only hesitation about signing Machado is that he is kind of a dick and isn't a leader or a good example. This is a young clubhouse without any vocal leaders, and I think Machado immediately becomes the leader of the team due to a giant contract. If the Sox do get Machado, I think they need to bring in a no-nonsense graybeard to set the tone in the clubhouse. Kinda like Carl Everett, but not an asshole.

This is why Alonso and Abreu are with the team

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It just seems like its to much money for either of these players, but i guess when you go down the road five years other contracts maybe similar, but it does scare me committing so much money to one player.

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5 hours ago, venom4789 said:

It just seems like its to much money for either of these players, but i guess when you go down the road five years other contracts maybe similar, but it does scare me committing so much money to one player.

It's pretty normal these days. A lot of teams have a player making 20-30M annually. What's another 5M or so? 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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1 minute ago, aeichhor said:

Why are the sox not included in Harper? 

To fuck with your head!

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It's getting to be like FOX News up in here with the amount of supposedly 'credible' twitter accounts completely rejecting the idea of the White Sox being "in" on these guys. 

 

How these guys can keep their credibility with so many obvious reports that the White Sox are in on these guys is besides me. 

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31 minutes ago, aeichhor said:

Why are the sox not included in Harper? 

Because Bowden is a clueless hack.  Wasn’t he doing shady shit with fake twitter accounts a few years back?

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1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Because Bowden is a clueless hack.  Wasn’t he doing shady shit with fake twitter accounts a few years back?

Lol it was even better then that. He tried to push off a report he just read on twitter as his own, when it turned out to be false he tried to delete his tweets before changing his twitter name to Ralph and removing the image so it was just an egg. It was truly hilarious. Can’t believe he has a job.

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8 minutes ago, bmags said:

Lol it was even better then that. He tried to push off a report he just read on twitter as his own, when it turned out to be false he tried to delete his tweets before changing his twitter name to Ralph and removing the image so it was just an egg. It was truly hilarious. Can’t believe he has a job.

Oh shit, that’s what it was.  Totally forgot about the Ralph name change.

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