Lillian Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 (edited) Has everyone here carefully considered the consequence of reducing the service time required for players to achieve free agent status? Those who assume that such a move will result in better contracts for players, should reconsider and study the history of free agency. It is a simple matter of supply and demand. Marvin Miller understood the principle, and shrewdly negotiated one of the most significant elements of free agency: "In July 1976, the union and management agreed on limitations to free agency: a player would need six years of major league service before he could seek a deal with another club. That accord seemed like a concession Mr. Miller did not need to make. But he concluded that limiting the stream of free agents would fuel the ball clubs’ bidding wars." Edited February 6, 2019 by Lillian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gusguyman Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 (edited) I don't think they get rid of the 6 years of control. All of the rebuilding teams will be deadset against it, otherwise they would have to watch their budding stars walk away in the next year. Plus baseball players take a lot longer to be ready compared to other sports. That said, I would love to see them do arbitration in years 2 and 3, and then a 3 year restricted free agency period. The team still has control, but the market can force them to pay the player a real salary. Edited February 6, 2019 by gusguyman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 Did the Sox use Phil to get this out? Not sure what the motivation would be tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, GenericUserName said: Of the probable outcomes, this is one of my favorites. Teams still get control, but players get much closer to their level of contribution. The only thing is that the arbitration process would also have to be changed. So much of it is still based on old school stat comparisons that it doesn't fully represent a player's contribution. This could also hopefully help free agents because if the cost of the team controlled players is higher, then the marginal cost of signing a free agent is less. The arbitration process is based on whatever the agent and team present to the arbitration panel. It's not based on any specific thing. Each side presents their case and numbers and the panel decide whose case is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 3 minutes ago, shipps said: Did the Sox use Phil to get this out? Not sure what the motivation would be tho. Phil likes to do streams of consciousness sometimes. Usually it is meaningless. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Phil likes to do streams of consciousness sometimes. Usually it is meaningless. Yeah I don’t know why I fall for it. 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenericUserName Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 25 minutes ago, ptatc said: The arbitration process is based on whatever the agent and team present to the arbitration panel. It's not based on any specific thing. Each side presents their case and numbers and the panel decide whose case is better. Yes, but you can present every advanced statistic known to man but it won't help if the panel doesn't understand them. https://blogs.fangraphs.com/lets-fix-mlbs-salary-arbitration-system-the-arbitrators/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 18 minutes ago, Lillian said: Has everyone here carefully considered the consequence of reducing the service time required for players to achieve free agent status? Those who assume that such a move will result in better contracts for players, should reconsider and study the history of free agency. It is a simple matter of supply and demand. Marvin Miller understood the principle, and shrewdly negotiated one of the most significant elements of free agency: "In July 1976, the union and management agreed on limitations to free agency: a player would need six years of major league service before he could seek a deal with another club. That accord seemed like a concession Mr. Miller did not need to make. But he concluded that limiting the stream of free agents would fuel the ball clubs’ bidding wars." I think restricted free agents for players in years 4-6 would work. Similar to the way hockey does it: Quote What makes a restricted free agent different? Unlike an unrestricted free agent who can either re-sign with their current team or test the open market and go elsewhere, restricted free agents are tied down unless a team allows them to become an unrestricted free agent. Teams have four different tender options they can place on their restricted free agent that usually keeps those players from leaving. First-round tender: Free agent can negotiate with other teams, but original team has option to match any deal and will receive a first-round selection if it opts not to match the deal. Second-round tender: Free agent can negotiate with other teams, but original team has option to match any deal and will receive a second-round selection if it opts not to match the deal. Original-round tender: Free agent can negotiate with other teams, but original team has option to match any deal and will receive a selection equal to the round the player was originally selected in if it opts not to match the deal. Right of first refusal: Free agent can negotiate with other teams, but original team has option to match any deal. The team will not receive any compensation if it opts not to match another deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPickle Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 1 hour ago, gusguyman said: I don't think they get rid of the 6 years of control. All of the rebuilding teams will be deadset against it, otherwise they would have to watch their budding stars walk away in the next year. Plus baseball players take a lot longer to be ready compared to other sports. That said, I would love to see them do arbitration in years 2 and 3, and then a 3 year restricted free agency period. The team still has control, but the market can force them to pay the player a real salary. If you had four years of control, say two years pre-arb and two years of arbitration, I could see there being more 5-7 year deals that are currently deemed "team friendly" deals signed before a player's debut and maybe after their rookie year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 :yawn: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, justBLAZE said: :yawn: If I had a dollar for ever tweet or rumor like this, I'd have enough to outbid everyone for Manny. 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 I like Hector but I don't really think he knows much more than any of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 Just now, Whitesox27 said: I like Hector but I don't really think he knows much more than any of us. Not saying the Sox will get Manny, but Gomez absolutely knows more than we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, fathom said: Not saying the Sox will get Manny, but Gomez absolutely knows more than we do. Yup. Can't count on these agents dragging shit out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 Hector has quadrupled down that the White Sox have the best chances. I don’t see someone fairly new risking their reputation for nothing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 5 minutes ago, fathom said: Not saying the Sox will get Manny, but Gomez absolutely knows more than we do. He's been more or less saying that the Sox are the favorites for several weeks now and nothing has happened. Then again, I guess it's not his fault if the market is moving at a snail's pace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heirdog Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 29 minutes ago, Orlando said: Hector has quadrupled down that the White Sox have the best chances. I don’t see someone fairly new risking their reputation for nothing. And Hector is a reporter based in the Dominican Republic (Manny’s home town) so not unreasonable that he may have a direct connection in the Machado family/camp. I believe Hector more than J. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, GenericUserName said: Yes, but you can present every advanced statistic known to man but it won't help if the panel doesn't understand them. https://blogs.fangraphs.com/lets-fix-mlbs-salary-arbitration-system-the-arbitrators/ That's neglect on the arbitrators part if they don't research the material given to them. Every one of them should be disbarred if they don't. The article states that no one knows the reasons for the decisions as they are not disclosed. So the assumption that the arbitrators don't understand the stats is a little condescending to them. Edited February 6, 2019 by ptatc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 9 minutes ago, heirdog said: And Hector is a reporter based in the Dominican Republic (Manny’s home town) so not unreasonable that he may have a direct connection in the Machado family/camp. I believe Hector more than J. Michael Same here. He has no White Sox ties and the White Sox fan base isn’t one to pander too if you want a huge following. He could have easily said the Yankees are still in it and had hubdreds of twitter users praising him. At the very least, he believes what he is reporting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 12 minutes ago, heirdog said: And Hector is a reporter based in the Dominican Republic (Manny’s home town) so not unreasonable that he may have a direct connection in the Machado family/camp. I believe Hector more than J. Michael Information flow has been so bizarre this winter. Not sure of it is people trying to adjust to the new realities of free agency, or people trying to fill information voids, but it is telling when even someone like Rick Hahn sounds confused by how things have gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschmaranz Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 Guys something is going to happen tomorrow 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitoMB345 Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 1 minute ago, Kyyle23 said: Guys something is going to happen tomorrow I Want To Believe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said: Guys something is going to happen tomorrow 1 minute ago, TitoMB345 said: I Want To Believe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Hombre Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 4 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said: Guys something is going to happen tomorrow WHITE SOX WEDNESDAY!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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