southsider2k5 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 11 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: I agree with a lot of this. The point is that Madrigal has a long ass way to go to prove he can maintain a good slash line even in the high minors. We'll see what happens when pitchers with control that can also knock the bat out of his hands start facing him. He's a nice prospect, but I think the Fangraphs valuation is way high on him. I'm closer to Keith Law (ugh) on Madrigal. Solid B guy, not A- or so like Fangraphs has him. If Madrigal absolutely bombs, and no one else is able to step in at 2B in the next few years, while having someone push Moncada off of 3B, you can always move him back. meanwhile you now should have a guy that can play 2 premium positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centerfieldsixers Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 1 minute ago, mqr said: If you can't outbid the Padres when literally all of the stars align in your favor... and your basing this on what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, Whitesox27 said: If they're not going to sign a high dollar guy now when the conditions are perfect, they never will. They would be relying almost entirely on developing talent from within which won't work. Ask the Astros. I don't think they had any high priced FA on their team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Just now, mqr said: If you can't outbid the Padres when literally all of the stars align in your favor... Exactly. I'm going to wait until this plays out to reserve judgment, but I'll lose pretty much all faith in this team winning anything in the near future if they don't get one of these guys. There's just no way to build a championship contender in this day in age without using free agency as a tool to add impact talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 9 minutes ago, ptatc said: This is why they were reluctant to do a true rebuild. Everyone knew this would happen. Most on this board were all for it but now everyone is jumping off the rebuild ship because they may not sign a high price free agent. Bingo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 8 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: I agree with a lot of this. The point is that Madrigal has a long ass way to go to prove he can maintain a good slash line even in the high minors. We'll see what happens when pitchers with control that can also knock the bat out of his hands start facing him. He's a nice prospect, but I think the Fangraphs valuation is way high on him. I'm closer to Keith Law (ugh) on Madrigal. Solid B guy, not A- or so like Fangraphs has him. The White Sox had him as the best collegiate hitter, period...heck, they were saying this as early as his first run with Team USA. If they’re wrong about him and Cease, Kopech, Robert, Collins, Burger, etc., even TWO WHALES isn’t going to be enough to build a World Series-winning team. https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/white-sox/white-sox-talk-podcast-nick-madrigals-college-coach-says-guy-going-be-superstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centerfieldsixers Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Just now, mqr said: 28 other teams didn't try ok apply your logic then. 4 teams in on Machado, we have a 25 % chance of landing him. Could it be were just not good right now to get a free agent? i mean when is the last time we were in on one? Lets be happy that we are trying and see how it plays out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, centerfieldsixers said: and your basing this on what? He's not basing anything. He's saying if Machado to SD happens, it's pretty much on ownership. And you can't say it's because the Sox aren't good enough to compete if he chooses San Diego lol Edited February 18, 2019 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, ptatc said: This is why they were reluctant to do a true rebuild. Everyone knew this would happen. Most on this board were all for it but now everyone is jumping off the rebuild ship because they may not sign a high price free agent. Just because it's a rebuild doesn't mean you have to wait until a decade later to judge the decisions being made in the present. The sox targeted two very talented, younger than average for free agency player in a favorable environment. If they fail, it's fair to judge them on that. It's also fair to judge them on their weak drafting since the rebuild. It's also fair to judge them on their continued poor results from international free agency. They haven't had a player use the ample playing time to suddenly flourish like other rebuilds, as milwaukee and philly had. Hahn has yet to sign a free agent position player that has performed anywhere near better than expected during his entire tenure. And it all still may succeed. But it doesn't mean every decision has been right along the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 1 minute ago, centerfieldsixers said: and your basing this on what? The fact that this offseason couldn't have set up any more perfectly and if they hypothetically don't convert there's no reason to believe they ever will? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said: If Madrigal absolutely bombs, and no one else is able to step in at 2B in the next few years, while having someone push Moncada off of 3B, you can always move him back. meanwhile you now should have a guy that can play 2 premium positions. Unless he winds up jack of all trades, master of none. Moncada has the tools to be a strong 2b and was improving at the position, but he was still a below average 2b last year altogether. He needed time to continue working at that position too. So, he spends some time at 3b, works through a year or so of struggles there, then moves back to 2b, and we've created a guy who is a below average defender at both? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Call it blind optimism if you like but I think its really convenient for them to make sure that this happens right now. It was measured. They probably had Lozano to tell them that Manny is their only 3rd base option and they wanted to show right away that its not. But kinda is though. :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 1 minute ago, centerfieldsixers said: Lets be happy that we are trying lol absolutely not. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centerfieldsixers Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Just now, Tony said: We’re still waiting for the Sox to draft and develop an all-star hitter. It’s been over a decade now... how bout it? Whom have we hit on since 2000? Ordonez, Crede, maybe Rowand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Just now, Balta1701 said: Unless he winds up jack of all trades, master of none. Moncada has the tools to be a strong 2b and was improving at the position, but he was still a below average 2b last year altogether. He needed time to continue working at that position too. So, he spends some time at 3b, works through a year or so of struggles there, then moves back to 2b, and we've created a guy who is a below average defender at both? With Ricky Renteria running the show! Just shoot me now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Just now, shipps said: Call it blind optimism if you like but I think its really convenient for them to make sure that this happens right now. It was measured. They probably had Lozano to tell them that Manny is their only 3rd base option and they wanted to show right away that its not. But kinda is though. 😕 Did Yolmer die that I wasn’t aware of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, centerfieldsixers said: ok apply your logic then. 4 teams in on Machado, we have a 25 % chance of landing him. Could it be were just not good right now to get a free agent? i mean when is the last time we were in on one? Lets be happy that we are trying and see how it plays out Fuck that. It's one thing to lose out to a team like the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, (gulp) the Cubs, or teams right in the middle of the competitive window where players want to play. But no excuses to not beat the Padres. Edited February 18, 2019 by soxfan2014 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Just now, centerfieldsixers said: how bout it? Whom have we hit on since 2000? Ordonez, Crede, maybe Rowand? Quentin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, ptatc said: Ask the Astros. I don't think they had any high priced FA on their team. Instead of getting their guy via FA, they were literally bailed out by the Tigers being willing to part with Verlander. Had that Tigers team not collapsed, the Astros don't win a world series. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiSox Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 10 minutes ago, ptatc said: Right. They built the team into a competitive team then signed the free agent. Except for lester, they built through the minors not signing FA. Lester, Zobrist, Ross, Heyward, Coughlin, Arrieta...none of them came from the minors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GermanSoxFan Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said: With Ricky Renteria running the show! Just shoot me now. We need Moncada to play 3rd when Ricky benches Manny for not hustling. 😂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 21 minutes ago, Whitesox27 said: That's a nice 67 win lineup right there. It amazes me how many posters think Moncada, Anderson, Gio, Lopez, Rodon will be the same player as last year, or the return of a healthy Abreu, addition of key bullpen pieces and Eloy, Cease amounts to only 5 wins added. Manny or not, you will see 50% of the future core this year. Natural progression alone will put us squarely into the 70+ win territory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, Tony said: We’re still waiting for the Sox to draft and develop an all-star hitter. It’s been over a decade now... If none of the current players become that, then it really doesn't matter if they sign Machado. They will suck regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Just now, chitownsportsfan said: Quentin. Not a white sox prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, shipps said: Call it blind optimism if you like but I think its really convenient for them to make sure that this happens right now. It was measured. They probably had Lozano to tell them that Manny is their only 3rd base option and they wanted to show right away that its not. But kinda is though. 😕 That’s how I read it. And we have flexibility to not sign Machado as well. Even if Yolmer plays 3rd this year, and Harper were to play OF, I don’t think that would be appreciably worse (if Harper/Manny had similar offensive profiles this season). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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