Machado signs with Padres 10/300

[SonofaRoache]

1 minute ago, Fan O'Faust said:

And what's the prize we get for coming in second?

The same prizes the Bulls get. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

If they failed to communicate/build enough rapport over the last six months to make sure they got a chance to beat any offer, they completely failed at negotiating properly.

If they GOT the chance to match it but didn't, they cheaped out and were never willing to win the bidding.

This is a huge failure for them. There's no other way to spin it.

Pal it's not rapport. You're not telling a team hey give me your best bid so I can go tell the team we want to play for to match. You're never getting a teams best offer that way and you're certainly not asking for best offers and turning the one teams around and telling the other team. You'll destroy your word in any negotiations going forward.

[Saufley]

22 minutes ago, Perfect Vision said:

Something else that shouldn't be lost here:  Hahn, KW, and JR just got outplayed.  From the sounds of it, they were confident that their offer last night would be enough.  They made a critical error in judgment in thinking the Padres would not offer a guaranteed 10/300.  If they had thought that, they might have made a better offer.  Do we know for a fact that Lozano called Hahn this morning and gave him an opportunity to beat the Padres??  Didn't Kenny say he learned of the deal on twitter??  It might not have been cheapness that did them in, but incompetency in reading the Padres interest.

Is anyone really surprised that the White Sox ownership and front office F__ked this up? I'm not! 

[yesterday333]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Pal it's not rapport. You're not telling a team hey give me your best bid so I can go tell the team we want to play for to match. You're never getting a teams best offer that way and you're certainly not asking for best offers and turning the one teams around and telling the other team. You'll destroy your word in any negotiations going forward.

But the phils got a chance to match it...

[turnin' two]

20 minutes ago, whitesoxwinner said:

I'm officially very out on white sox Dave. What terrible takes by him today

Welcome to the club.

[Eminor3rd]

2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Pal it's not rapport. You're not telling a team hey give me your best bid so I can go tell the team we want to play for to match. You're never getting a teams best offer that way and you're certainly not asking for best offers and turning the one teams around and telling the other team. You'll destroy your word in any negotiations going forward.

That's a lot of assumptions on how the process went, PAL, lol.

Also runs directly counter to reports on the Phillies denying to match the offer when Lozano called Klentak. 

Edited February 19, 2019 by Eminor3rd

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 minutes ago, heirdog said:

https://theathletic.com/827011/2019/02/19/with-machado-to-padres-phillies-say-they-wont-be-pressured-into-a-bryce-harper-deal-now-what/

Subscription only so here is the key part of my “nonsense” (see bolded):

By that moment, the inner circle of Phillies decision-makers knew Manny Machado was headed elsewhere. They had known for quite some time. Dan Lozano was in Arizona on Monday night with Padres officials to finalize the richest free-agent contract in professional sports history. Throughout the negotiation process, two sources said, Phillies general manager Matt Klentak was adamant with Lozano: The Phillies would not go to $300 million for Machado. Lozano called again on Tuesday. The Phillies would not counter San Diego.

“We had a pretty good idea of where this thing was going,” Klentak said.

Hours after reports of Machado’s contract leaked, Klentak summoned reporters to a third-floor conference room at Spectrum Field and added a new phrase to the offseason lexicon that was — until Tuesday — defined by two words.

“If the reports are true, then this contract will exceed our valuation,” Klentak said. “Sometimes you have to be willing to walk away.”

Yes. 

"We had a pretty idea where this was going." 

As Kenny said, they heard "rumors" of a 300 million dollar offer. Nothing official from Lozano but leaks. They bid and lost. Phillies had no interest in bidding. Lozano checks backs and they say same.

[SonofaRoache]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Pal it's not rapport. You're not telling a team hey give me your best bid so I can go tell the team we want to play for to match. You're never getting a teams best offer that way and you're certainly not asking for best offers and turning the one teams around and telling the other team. You'll destroy your word in any negotiations going forward.

That isn't true at all. How can the Sox beat an offer they don't know exists? The agent is trying to get the most money he can like an auction. He went to the Sox and asked if they could beat 300 million. Had the Sox said yes, 320, he would have went to the Padres and asked if they could beat 320. Sadly, the Sox tapped out. 

[heirdog]

2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Pal it's not rapport. You're not telling a team hey give me your best bid so I can go tell the team we want to play for to match. You're never getting a teams best offer that way and you're certainly not asking for best offers and turning the one teams around and telling the other team. You'll destroy your word in any negotiations going forward.

So you are saying Lozano is worried about his image/ethics/“word” in negotiations...and on the same hand you are painting those of us that disagree on your premise of blind bids as naive.  👌 

[Buehrle>Wood]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yes. 

"We had a pretty idea where this was going." 

As Kenny said, they heard "rumors" of a 300 million dollar offer. Nothing official from Lozano but leaks. They bid and lost. Phillies had no interest in bidding. Lozano checks backs and they say same.

Who do you think was doing the leaking....it certainly wasnt the Padres. Lozano went back to the Sox and Phils. Sounds like both knew what had to be done but didnt pull the trigger for whatever reason.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Just now, Eminor3rd said:

That's a lot of assumptions on how the process went, PAL, lol.

They would be/were asked to BEAT the offer. Not match it. 

 

2 minutes ago, yesterday333 said:

But the phils got a chance to match it...

They got a chance to BEAT it. Not match it. There is a monster difference.

[Moan4Yoan]

3 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

Sometimes those contracts start to look bad around year 7 and does a franchise really get their money's worth? It's not the end of the world.

Was anyone who wanted to sign Machado or Harper worried about how he will perform in 7+ years?  No, of course not.  It’s the added price you pay to have the Hall of Famer in his prime.  Besides, that many years in the future is too hard to predict and may even be at the tailend or end of the Sox window to compete.

[Saufley]

15 minutes ago, Lillian said:

So, what do the Sox play for, this season? Is this year # 3 of "tank for the Draft"? If Hahn tries to fill a bunch of holes with guys who are not part of the long term plan, this fan base will be even more livid. Unless they just accept the losing, that reversal of intentions would seem almost inevitable. They are not going to compete without adding too many pieces, and none of them meet the criteria of being part of the long term rebuild.

Hey! Don't the Bears begin practice in July? 

[SonofaRoache]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yes. 

"We had a pretty idea where this was going." 

As Kenny said, they heard "rumors" of a 300 million dollar offer. Nothing official from Lozano but leaks. They bid and lost. Phillies had no interest in bidding. Lozano checks backs and they say same.

So the Sox knew the offer from a leak and didn't reach out to the agent? Maybe the Sox told the agent we can't do 300, which is why the agent didn't tell them the number. The Phillies don't want Machado, so they didn't  care. 

[Balta1701]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

They would be/were asked to BEAT the offer. Not match it. 

 

They got a chance to BEAT it. Not match it. There is a monster difference.

Hell, the White Sox wouldn't even match. They were clearly not guaranteeing more than $250 million based on any version of these contracts we've seen. They weren't close. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, SonofaRoache said:

That isn't true at all. How can the Sox beat an offer they don't know exists? The agent is trying to get the most money he can like an auction. He went to the Sox and asked if they could beat 300 million. Had the Sox said yes, 320, he would have went to the Padres and asked if they could beat 320. Sadly, the Sox tapped out. 

Beat, not match. My goodness. He didnt say hey, they offered 10 years 300 million can you match it and we'll sign. 

He asked teams to beat the bid after the blind bidding. Not match. There is a very big difference. 

[Soxfest]

Sox can spin this any way they want after the fact. Hahn, KW and JR have lost all credibility with the fan base. Cried wolf one too many times today was the straw that broke the camels back. A Abreu extension as plan C does nothing to excite anyone.

Edited February 19, 2019 by Soxfest

[SonofaRoache]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Beat, not match. My goodness. He didnt say hey, they offered 10 years 300 million can you match it and we'll sign. 

He asked teams to beat the bid after the blind bidding. Not match. There is a very big difference. 

Where in my post did I say match? 

[heirdog]

Just now, Balta1701 said:

Hell, the White Sox wouldn't even match. They were clearly not guaranteeing more than $250 million based on any version of these contracts we've seen. They weren't close. 

Yes and even Kenny said directly in the interview when asked if Sox offer was better...”well, maybe not in base salary...” I’m interpreting that to mean guaranteed (vs options, incentives, swell-opts etc).  

[turnin' two]

8 minutes ago, Whitesox27 said:

Like I said, get Harper and all will be forgiven.

If they can't as an organization guarantee 300M, then they have a 0% chance of signing Bryce.  

[Eminor3rd]

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

They would be/were asked to BEAT the offer. Not match it. 

 

They got a chance to BEAT it. Not match it. There is a monster difference.

Of course they'd have to beat it. Are you saying the Sox shouldn't have gone to a, say, $31mm AAV? Less than what both Kershaw and Greinke make?

[mqr]

3 minutes ago, Soxfest said:

Sox can spin this any way they want after the fact. Hahn, KW and JR have lost all credibility with the fan base. Cried wolf one too many times today was the straw that broke the camels back. A Abreu extension as plan C does nothing to excite anyone.

Yup. They’re in bulls territory 100%

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, heirdog said:

Yes and even Kenny said directly in the interview when asked if Sox offer was better...”well, maybe not in base salary...” I’m interpreting that to mean guaranteed (vs options, incentives, swell-opts etc).  

Both plausible versions I've seen have a $250 million base that swell-opts to $350, and a $250 million base that has 2 vesting options that a team could maneuver its way to avoid but which could total $320.

$300 million guaranteed with an opt out after 5 years is WAY better than either of those for the player. The guarantee is higher for if the player does get hurt, and if the player is an all-star after year 5 and the market has been fixed by a new CBA, they take the opt-out and wind up with much higher career earnings than either of those formats. 

[Eminor3rd]

7 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yes. 

"We had a pretty idea where this was going." 

As Kenny said, they heard "rumors" of a 300 million dollar offer. Nothing official from Lozano but leaks. They bid and lost. Phillies had no interest in bidding. Lozano checks backs and they say same.

"The Phillies would not counter San Diego."

If Lozano was not willing to take counter offers, then he left money on the table.

[fathom]

My thought is Lozano came to them saying they had 300 elsewhere and asked Sox if they could match. Sox said no, kept their offer from last night and was hoping Lozano was bluffing. Then Lozano calls Hahn to say it’s over.