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Machado signs with Padres 10/300

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2 minutes ago, bmags said:

I don't care a lick if the sox bid against themselves.

No one would blame them all things considered. 

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I am fine with the wait and see approach with us, if we are sitting there confident that the other suitors all had their look at the situation and passed on it.

the JD Martinez thing lasted long last year because this is a battle to redefine the entire market place between agents & teams. If we have inside info on what the other owners are doing (and Jerry tends to have owners' ear) then why bid against yourself. ST is here, so if another team is going to come along, it's going to be now or never. 

Edited by Princess Dye
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4 minutes ago, bmags said:

I don't care a lick if the sox bid against themselves.

While it would’ve be nice if the Sox told machado “here’s your 10/$300 million” or whatever he’s looking for, and ended this nonsense weeks ago, it doesn’t make sense from a business standpoint. 

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3 hours ago, shipps said:

For me I haven’t even read anything in the media today it was just a feeling I got. It means nothing, just a familiar feeling. 

I have said from the start of this that I never felt like time would be on the Sox side. Time will allow for so many variables to take place that will leave the Sox out. There more this goes on the greater the chance that something happens to knock them out. They needed to be aggressive in my opinion. They are making a business decision in playing this semi conservatively, it appears. Ultimately who the heck knows what’s going on behind the scene though. 

If the Sox are foolish enough to let Machado’s camp believe that they actually will not budge on a sub-200mm dollar contract, then yes, time is not on their side anymore. 

But if they have implied that they will not be outbid, then they should get an opportunity to counter their own offer when Lozano comes to them saying he’s about to short a short term deal for higher AAV. Then, the Sox should move the number up to where it needs to be, knowing confidently that no team is left to outbid them. 

Edited by Eminor3rd

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7 minutes ago, TheTruth05 said:

Although I agree with the "It's not my money, just land the guy" I still have doubts Lozano wouldn't still be holding out and keep upping the cap for Manny's services. So say the Sox did indeed put out a 10/327 mil offer, we probably would still be waiting for Harper to sign to see if they can top that. That's the kinda offseason it has been.

He may not be signed, but if the sox had a 10 year 327 mill offer on the table for manny there would be 0 doubt that he would sign short term, and no chance for a significant push from a team on the sidelines.

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2 minutes ago, bmags said:

He may not be signed, but if the sox had a 10 year 327 mill offer on the table for manny there would be 0 doubt that he would sign short term, and no chance for a significant push from a team on the sidelines.

Or the agent would think, they already bid against themselves before, maybe we can get them to do it again if we just wait it out. if not we will just sign the 10 for 327

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1 minute ago, bmags said:

He may not be signed, but if the sox had a 10 year 327 mill offer on the table for manny there would be 0 doubt that he would sign short term, and no chance for a significant push from a team on the sidelines.

I get where you're coming from, I just personally don't think he signs short term coming off a great year this past year. He could just as easily have a 2017 repeat and leave substantial money on the table. Harper would probably make the most sense of either big fish to do it but I personally can't see it, obviously none of us know. I just think this is a staring contest between agents, they both want their client to be the last gem on the market. Good thing Sox aren't doing squat this year they can wait this out.

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6 minutes ago, Bad Hombre said:

While it would’ve be nice if the Sox told machado “here’s your 10/$300 million” or whatever he’s looking for, and ended this nonsense weeks ago, it doesn’t make sense from a business standpoint. 

I honestly don't get this point. It may not make sense from a roster building standpoint, it may not make sense from an allocation of resources standpoint, but a business standpoint? 

Was a rebuild a good idea from a "business standpoint"? Was acquiring Joakim Soria's salary to give up less prospects good from a "business standpoint"?

Baseball isn't a comparable business. The purpose of most baseball teams is to be as good as possible without losing cash in the short term while building the value of the franchise longterm when we get down to it. 

Winning can lead to making more money as a franchise but making money as a franchise doesn't lead to winning.

It could be a great asset to the chicago white sox to get Manny Machado at the perfect nexus of the markets demand and not a cent more. But that may come at the cost of not getting Manny Machado.

Not getting Manny Machado spins them into uncertainty of trying to get a substantial bat in their lineup, getting more certainty you can land him may come at a price worth paying.

The sox are not going to lose money on Manny Machado's deal. If that potentially happens they can trade him. 

There is a spending aspect to this, but the idea that there is just a business formula saying paying more than you need to is more costly than the risk of not getting the player is just nonsense to me.

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Lozano's last card to play is how the league looks bad right now and how teams arent "going for it" supposedly. I dont know what team is going to totally revamp their offseason plan based on something like that. It's said that the Angels were a 'mystery team' for Pujols but i wonder how much that's based in reality, or if they were a part of things all along.

I dont get the idea that someone is going to just swoop in and realize "oh yeah, this guy is a free agent! I'll bid in February for the first time!" It just feels like the bids are in. How could they not be? These are HoF potential free agents.

I say all this noting that i dont think the high bid right now is $175M. Way higher.

Edited by Princess Dye

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5 minutes ago, yesterday333 said:

Or the agent would think, they already bid against themselves before, maybe we can get them to do it again if we just wait it out. if not we will just sign the 10 for 327

...yes? 

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3 minutes ago, Princess Dye said:

Lozano's last card to play is how the league looks bad right now and how teams arent "going for it" supposedly. I dont know what team is going to totally revamp their offseason plan based on something like that. It's said that the Angels were a 'mystery team' for Pujols but i wonder how much that's based in reality, or if they were a part of things all along.

I dont get the idea that someone is going to just swoop in and realize "oh yeah, this guy is a free agent! I'll bid in February for the first time!" It just feels like the bids are in. How could they not be? These are HoF potential free agents.

I say all this noting that i dont think the high bid right now is $175M. Way higher.

This is probably true! I hope sox are sitting at 8 for 250! We have no idea though and if they are truly sitting at a base of 7 for 175 with some swellopt I'd rather they have upped the base.

I'd have zero problem with the commitment of 8 for 250 with an opt-out at year 5 that can be triggered if sox don't pick up an option for an additional 2 years 60 million or something like that, and that's a 10 year 310 deal and everyone's happy.

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2 minutes ago, bmags said:

...yes? 

I think I misunderstood what you were trying to say. I thought you were saying if we had that offer out there and he hadn't signed it, then he would probably just take a 1 year deal cuz he didn't want to play with us...

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16 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

If the Sox are foolish enough to let Machado’s camp believe that they actually will not budge on a sub-200mm dollar contract, then yes, time is not on their side anymore. 

But if they have implied that they will not be outbid, then they should get an opportunity to counter their own offer when Lozano comes to them saying he’s about to short a short term deal for higher AAV. Then, the Sox should move the number up to where it needs to be, knowing confidently that no team is left to outbid them. 

The more I think about it, the strategy of "We want you, but only slightly more than anyone else is willing to bid" seems like a tough strategy to win unless you are the favorite destination of the player involved.  That really doesn't say WE WANT YOU.  It doesn't do a lot to woo them.

 

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Just now, yesterday333 said:

I think I misunderstood what you were trying to say. I thought you were saying if we had that offer out there and he hadn't signed it, then he would probably just take a 1 year deal cuz he didn't want to play with us...

No, not at all, I don't know it would be resolved. I just would feel more comfortable if sox had set themselves up with more room against the rest of the market. They may have! Just shooting the breeze since we have had no real info since early december.

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13 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

I’d the Sox are foolish enough to let Machado’s camp believe that they actually will not budge on a sub-200mm dollar contract, then yes, time is not on their side anymore. 

But if they have implied that they will not be outbid, then they should get an opportunity to counter their own offer when Lozano comes to them saying he’s about to short a short term deal for higher AAV. Then, the Sox should move the number up to where it needs to be, knowing confidently that no team is left to outbid them. 

Every year, players and agents fight tooth and nail to "get that additional year."  Just this offseason we saw it with Corbin, Pollock, and now Keuchel.  It's about squeezing the most total money.  Players don't sign short term deals by choice.  If Lozano comes to the Sox saying Manny's considering taking a short term deal, they should resist the urge to laugh and politely tell him that they understand and that their offer is still good.

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2 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Business men dont have come to jesus moments about spending 300 million dollars they didnt plan on spending 1 month ago.

Said perfectly

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8 minutes ago, bmags said:

I honestly don't get this point. It may not make sense from a roster building standpoint, it may not make sense from an allocation of resources standpoint, but a business standpoint? 

Was a rebuild a good idea from a "business standpoint"? Was acquiring Joakim Soria's salary to give up less prospects good from a "business standpoint"?

Baseball isn't a comparable business. The purpose of most baseball teams is to be as good as possible without losing cash in the short term while building the value of the franchise longterm when we get down to it. 

Winning can lead to making more money as a franchise but making money as a franchise doesn't lead to winning.

It could be a great asset to the chicago white sox to get Manny Machado at the perfect nexus of the markets demand and not a cent more. But that may come at the cost of not getting Manny Machado.

Not getting Manny Machado spins them into uncertainty of trying to get a substantial bat in their lineup, getting more certainty you can land him may come at a price worth paying.

The sox are not going to lose money on Manny Machado's deal. If that potentially happens they can trade him. 

There is a spending aspect to this, but the idea that there is just a business formula saying paying more than you need to is more costly than the risk of not getting the player is just nonsense to me.

I agree with 100% of what you said. I probably should’ve said it doesn’t make sense from a NEGOTIATING standpoint. Not the best idea to bid against yourself, or start with your best offer. 

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3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The more I think about it, the strategy of "We want you, but only slightly more than anyone else is willing to bid" seems like a tough strategy to win unless you are the favorite destination of the player involved.  That really doesn't say WE WANT YOU.  It doesn't do a lot to woo them.

 

To be fair, if the MM's market is as quiet as it seems to be, then aren't the Sox stuck on their base offer by default possibly?  What does it say about other teams that haven't made a formal offer or even worse, haven't even checked in? 

Edited by TheTruth05

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1 minute ago, Bad Hombre said:

I agree with 100% of what you said. I probably should’ve said it doesn’t make sense from a NEGOTIATING standpoint. Not the best idea to bid against yourself, or start with your best offer. 

One thing that I'm surprised by (and I can't wait to see if we get a full story of this courting)

Is I thought the sox would start off bidding with a hard aggressive offer, try and sign quick before other teams and maybe have one counterpunch in them before they tapped out. That worried me.

It feels like they actually went with a lower end offer and have just been riding this wave of the teams involved knowing there aren't many bidders (maybe 2) and them playing this prisoners dilemma game where neither wants to nudge each other too much when they can both walk away with a guy.

That's all fun and games until a team like the giants or padres becomes serious and the approach may have turned off the player.

So ultimately I just hope our initial offer is the passan one. I think teams can justify finding $200 mill for a 26 year old, but I think it does hit a point where it required previous planning around 250 pretty quickly.

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1 minute ago, bmags said:

One thing that I'm surprised by (and I can't wait to see if we get a full story of this courting)

Is I thought the sox would start off bidding with a hard aggressive offer, try and sign quick before other teams and maybe have one counterpunch in them before they tapped out. That worried me.

It feels like they actually went with a lower end offer and have just been riding this wave of the teams involved knowing there aren't many bidders (maybe 2) and them playing this prisoners dilemma game where neither wants to nudge each other too much when they can both walk away with a guy.

That's all fun and games until a team like the giants or padres becomes serious and the approach may have turned off the player.

So ultimately I just hope our initial offer is the passan one. I think teams can justify finding $200 mill for a 26 year old, but I think it does hit a point where it required previous planning around 250 pretty quickly.

This is exactly my fear. 

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12 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The more I think about it, the strategy of "We want you, but only slightly more than anyone else is willing to bid" seems like a tough strategy to win unless you are the favorite destination of the player involved.  That really doesn't say WE WANT YOU.  It doesn't do a lot to woo them.

 

Adding Alonso and Jay absolutely told Machado that we really want him. And I’m sure the pitch to him when he visited was very impressive. Manny knows how badly we want him. 

Edited by SoxBlanco
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5 minutes ago, bmags said:

One thing that I'm surprised by (and I can't wait to see if we get a full story of this courting)

Is I thought the sox would start off bidding with a hard aggressive offer, try and sign quick before other teams and maybe have one counterpunch in them before they tapped out. That worried me.

It feels like they actually went with a lower end offer and have just been riding this wave of the teams involved knowing there aren't many bidders (maybe 2) and them playing this prisoners dilemma game where neither wants to nudge each other too much when they can both walk away with a guy.

That's all fun and games until a team like the giants or padres becomes serious and the approach may have turned off the player.

So ultimately I just hope our initial offer is the passan one. I think teams can justify finding $200 mill for a 26 year old, but I think it does hit a point where it required previous planning around 250 pretty quickly.

If the Sox entered this thing prepared to go to $250 mil + if they needed to, and the Giants and Padres did not get into this thing in the beginning because they weren't prepared to go that high, then there's no reason to be worried about them.

Manny isn't going to be upset with the Sox by this process.  The Yankees, yeah he's probably pissed at them.

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13 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The more I think about it, the strategy of "We want you, but only slightly more than anyone else is willing to bid" seems like a tough strategy to win unless you are the favorite destination of the player involved.  That really doesn't say WE WANT YOU.  It doesn't do a lot to woo them.

 

Which, really just depends on how they are defining “slightly more.” If they really are sitting on 7/175, and Machado is disappointed by that, it doesn’t take a huge leap of faith for him to say “if I take 3/120 right now, I am confident that I’ll out earn the back end of the Sox offer in my next deal.”

if they’re sitting on 8/240, that’s a much tougher pill to swallow. 

It depends how hard the Sox are playing this. The closer you fly to the ground, the less margin for error you have. Unfortunately I don’t think there’s any way for anyone, media or otherwise, to know how this is being played. 

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2 hours ago, Orlando said:

 

Ok ready for a private eye post? This dude who’s name is “Eddie Machado” claims to be Manny’s cousin on twitter. Says the deal is done. The picture looks a lot like Machado...

Lol, “Cousin Eddie” is clearly a Vacation fan.  

Next he’ll tweet...”Bet you sure could use a cool one, hey Manny?”

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1 minute ago, heirdog said:

Lol, “Cousin Eddie” is clearly a Vacation fan.  

Next he’ll tweet...”Bet you sure could use a cool one, hey Manny?”

"Happy Spring Training!...shitter was full."

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