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Manny: Agent of Chaos

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2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Tim Anderson has the tools to be a top tier defensive SS. No one else in the Sox system can say that. He has great range and a cannon of an arm. He keeps getting better at it.

I absolutely hate the idea of moving Timmy off of SS for an inferior defensive player. 

I agree.  He still makes some errors, and some bad ones at times, but he's getting better and really looks like he could be a Gold Glover there.

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Anderson was an excellent point guard...in some ways, his skill set and physical resiliency (not wearing down too much from stealing so many bases) would seemingly make him the better candidate for CF.

That said, he was really playing much better the second half of the season...almost Gold Glove level, were he on a media favorite team.

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I'd prefer Machado at 3B for obvious reasons but what if they played him at SS and signed a 2B like Asdrubal Cabrera (111 wRC+ last year ) and another SP like Ervin Santana? Is this a wildcard contender?

 

1. Moncada 3B

2. Cabrera 2B

3. Machado SS

4. Abreu 1B/DH

5. Alonso 1B/DH

6. Jimenez LF

7. Castillo C 

8. Jay RF

9. Anderson CF 

Rotation

1. Rodon LHP

2. Lopez RHP

3. Santana RHP

4. Nova RHP

5. Giolito RHP

Bullpen 

Colome (RHP)

Herrera (RHP)

Fry (LHP)

Jones (RHP)

Hamilton (RHP)

Frare (LHP)

Covey (RHP) 

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Just now, caulfield12 said:

Anderson was an excellent point guard...in some ways, his skill set and physical resiliency (not wearing down too much from stealing so many bases) would seemingly make him the better candidate for CF.

That said, he was really playing much better the second half of the season...almost Gold Glove level, were he on a media favorite team.

Which the Sox would be with Manny on board.  Well, maybe not a media favorite, but they would get a lot more attention.

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Just now, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I'd prefer Machado at 3B for obvious reasons but what if they played him at SS and signed a 2B like Asdrubal Cabrera (111 wRC+ last year ) and another SP like Ervin Santana? Is this a wildcard contender?

Not unless your top 10 cy young contenders include Rodon, Lopez, and Giolito, and Don Cooper goes down as the greatest pitching coach in human history while we're at it.

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3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Another point I think is important - I'll minimize all the other aspects of Manny Machado not working hard or having a bad personality or having bad hair or whatever other point people want to use to insult him for not being like them. But if Manny Machado wants to come to a team and insist that he needs to be the SS and him getting that position is so important that the team needs to shuffle 4 players around to make it happen - that's a much bigger attitude red flag than anything else I've seen.

What's going to happen in a couple years when he loses a step, is no longer even a tolerable SS, the team has drafted a SS candidate, and Machado refuses to move? Manny Machado now makes the lineup card out?

Interesting post of calling out people criticizing him for not being like them, yet you go on to criticize him in your way. Would your criticism not be part of the bad personality variety? He is definitely a player that has strengths and weaknesses.

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Chances are if you can play SS in the major leagues, you can probably play a number of positions. It's not a 100% lock, but a pretty good chance.

 

He didn't play SS, but Craig Biggio was a catcher and outfielder before he became a 2B then he went back to the OF full time, before returning to 2B, and he made the HOF. . Robin Yount moved to CF. Tim Raines was a 2B. 

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2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

You can't use health as an excuse to worry about Robert while people are telling me that Madrigal's ridiculously bad ground ball rate and lack of power aren't a worry because he was just banged up and that's not a problem for Madrigal. 

Madrigal wouldn’t be the first college prospect to underwhelm with power during their post draft season though. That is a thing. And scouts that have actually watched Madrigal say he’s effective at tapping into power so I’ll trust them more than half season numbers.

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1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

Chances are if you can play SS in the major leagues, you can probably play a number of positions. It's not a 100% lock, but a pretty good chance.

 

He didn't play SS, but Craig Biggio was a catcher and outfielder before he became a 2B then he went back to the OF full time, before returning to 2B, and he made the HOF. . Robin Yount moved to CF. Tim Raines was a 2B. 

Yeah honestly, fans in general should give some of these players more credit when it comes to talk about being able to play multiple positions.

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2 minutes ago, fathom said:

Am I the only one that thinks Manny wants to play SS for the next 5 years or so to help his HOF chances?

Good call. His bat is more impressive there. It would be interesting to see how WAR projects him at each position as voters are starting to shift their focus for stats.

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Just now, soxfan2014 said:

Yeah honestly, fans in general should give some of these players more credit when it comes to talk about being able to play multiple positions.

As soon as Sox drafted Madrigal, we knew position changes were inevitable.

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Just now, fathom said:

As soon as Sox drafted Madrigal, we knew position changes were inevitable.

No doubt. However as they said at that, having too many good players is a good problem.

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Moving any player on the MLB roster in anticipation of Madrigal's arrival is nuts. Let's see the kid crack a .400 slugging with wood bats before we move the superior prospect to a new position.

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4 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I'd prefer Machado at 3B for obvious reasons but what if they played him at SS and signed a 2B like Asdrubal Cabrera (111 wRC+ last year ) and another SP like Ervin Santana? Is this a wildcard contender?

 

1. Moncada 3B

2. Cabrera 2B

3. Machado SS

4. Abreu 1B/DH

5. Alonso 1B/DH

6. Jimenez LF

7. Castillo C 

8. Jay RF

9. Anderson CF 

Rotation

1. Rodon LHP

2. Lopez RHP

3. Santana RHP

4. Nova RHP

5. Giolito RHP

Bullpen 

Colome (RHP)

Herrera (RHP)

Fry (LHP)

Jones (RHP)

Hamilton (RHP)

Frare (LHP)

Covey (RHP) 

We would then have the majority of WBC representatives...goodbye, Tim Anderson.   On the plus side, we can convert half of Miami and Latin America into White Sox fans. 

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11 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Another point I think is important - I'll minimize all the other aspects of Manny Machado not working hard or having a bad personality or having bad hair or whatever other point people want to use to insult him for not being like them. But if Manny Machado wants to come to a team and insist that he needs to be the SS and him getting that position is so important that the team needs to shuffle 4 players around to make it happen - that's a much bigger attitude red flag than anything else I've seen.

What's going to happen in a couple years when he loses a step, is no longer even a tolerable SS, the team has drafted a SS candidate, and Machado refuses to move? Manny Machado now makes the lineup card out?

Just call him Derek Jeter!

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Just now, ptatc said:

No doubt. However as they said at that, having too many good players is a good problem.

Yep, which is why if they project Manny, Yoan, Timmy and Madrigal as 4 of their core players, then this is the most effective way to get them all on the same field.

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1 minute ago, ptatc said:

Interesting post of calling out people criticizing him for not being like them, yet you go on to criticize him in your way. Would your criticism not be part of the bad personality variety? He is definitely a player that has strengths and weaknesses.

I guess this wasn't clear enough so let me try it again.

if Manny Machado refuses to play any position other than SS that is a huge personality red flag. There are some things I don't care about - I don't care that much when a veteran slams his bat down rather than running out a popup. I don't care if a guy is a little cocky.

there are some things that are a much bigger deal. I care a lot about a guy refusing to do what is best for the roster and hurting the franchise. I care about a player overruling the manager. Manny Machado does not make the lineups. Most of the personality things people have cited for him, I think they don't matter and I think people pay no attention to them when other players do them. 

Manny Machado insisting he was a 3b and causing the White Sox to shuffle 4 positions would be an enormous personality red flag. So big that I'm pretty sure I'd say F*** it and look elsewhere. He'd make my team better now but he's going to be a big problem soon when he insists he has a right to that position.

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8 minutes ago, fathom said:

Am I the only one that thinks Manny wants to play SS for the next 5 years or so to help his HOF chances?

Which is silly, because he's amazing at 3rd.

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9 minutes ago, fathom said:

Am I the only one that thinks Manny wants to play SS for the next 5 years or so to help his HOF chances?

After receiving $35M per season for the next 7-8 years, I'd feel truly awful for him if he didn't end up in the HOF. I'm sure when he's sitting in his mansion in Miami when he's 40 he will feel like a loser if he wasn't inducted into Cooperstown. What a wasted career it would be otherwise. 🙄

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1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

I guess this wasn't clear enough so let me try it again.

if Manny Machado refuses to play any position other than SS that is a huge personality red flag. There are some things I don't care about - I don't care that much when a veteran slams his bat down rather than running out a popup. I don't care if a guy is a little cocky.

there are some things that are a much bigger deal. I care a lot about a guy refusing to do what is best for the roster and hurting the franchise. I care about a player overruling the manager. Manny Machado does not make the lineups. Most of the personality things people have cited for him, I think they don't matter and I think people pay no attention to them when other players do them. 

Manny Machado insisting he was a 3b and causing the White Sox to shuffle 4 positions would be an enormous personality red flag. So big that I'm pretty sure I'd say F*** it and look elsewhere. He'd make my team better now but he's going to be a big problem soon when he insists he has a right to that position.

I get that, but just because those are the things you care about doesn't make the things others care about less justified. All of those things are part if his make up and personality.  If the Sox are going to sign him, pay him that type of money and possibly reshuffle their infield, all factors need to be evaluated. 

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