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Manny: Enter the Panic Room

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Just now, fathom said:

He had one big game for them, and that was game 5 of WS.  Besides that, he was bad. Come on, he made Conor look like a crusher.

Some people are just incapable of admitting that the almighty Theo isn't perfect. 

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The White Sox are a very capable and profitable business. They have been dreadful at winning baseball games but they definitely do pretty well for themselves from a moneymaking standpoint and everyone who works for them seems to be happy employees.. Point is they have the money to do things. Its there.

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1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The comments in this thread are just factually inaccurate. 

The city is not split as is being portrayed. The Sox are not a small market team. Their fanbase is larger than 90% of teams in baseball. Oak Park is one of the largest suburbs in the CHicagoland area, and it's split, so to say you don't see Sox fans in suburbs is just categorically wrong. If you are using gear seen to judge - people wear less gear when the team sucks.

Unless you’re Kevin Durant. But it’s true, I don’t blame Sox fans for not buying jerseys. Who would have even been “cool” to wear one of over last five years?  Abreu, that’s it.

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2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Thanks. I'm not defending ownership either, as revenue sharing dollars are ridiculous. The fact remains that the Cubs print money and the Sox don't. Ever wonder why? There are a lot more fans of that other team than the Sox. 

Because they have a tourist attraction tied to their location and their ballpark maybe? Because nationally they have more of a following because of WGN playing their games nationally? 

 

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5 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

You’re simplifying this way too much. Do you really think Cubs are going to deplete their team even more to add a superstar? Who do they have left to trade that they can afford to move? Contreras? Who becomes their catcher then? Almora/Happ? Who plays center? Schwarber? They aren’t going to create two holes to fill one (that doesn’t even appear to be a hole to begin with). With everything the Cubs would need to do in order to add Harper, it doesn’t make them a better team, AND it hurts their future. 

But if you're going to suck again anyway, you have to REALLY suck. That is how they got this far in the first place. If you're a smart fan you realize this. You maximize your window, then Tank and start the process over again. If you're a fan of the name on the front then the name on  the back shouldn't matter. You should want what is best for the name on the front. If that means trading Bryant with a half season left on his deal, should he bounce back a Cub fan should want them to do it. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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2 minutes ago, Tony said:

I don't think JR is a "victim" at all, and didn't paint him as such. Listen, right or wrong at some point money could reach a point where it becomes "stupid." That is a fact. My point simply was if someone was to offer Machado "stupid money" and the Sox decided they were "out" on Machado, they would still receive flak for it, and rightfully so. That was my whole point. You're reading WAY too much into me even coming close to defending ownership. I'm not. 

Fair about the ownership, I'll sway away from that.

I just think that in some cases stupid money makes sense.  And if there ever is a case, it's the White Sox right now.  It's very rare for players of this caliber at this age to hit the free agent market. Given their prospect timeframe and current payroll, the situation will rarely make more sense than now.  You can't wait for free agents in the future because they may end up staying put or another desperate team may show up.

And the team gets enough revenue that it won't cripple anything financially.  The only way it could really hurt the bottom line is if your front office does a poor job, but in that case, you were screwed from day one anyway with the people that were hired.

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1 minute ago, fathom said:

Unless you’re Kevin Durant. But it’s true, I don’t blame Sox fans for not buying jerseys. Who would have even been “cool” to wear one of over last five years?  Abreu, that’s it.

Yes. Sox gear was everywhere in 2006 - how quickly people forget. 

As the article states - the Sox aren't the Mets. No where in New York is MET first. Chicago is actually split and divided. The Sox have no excuses. They ran payroll in the top 5-7 for years.  They can afford it. The Sox don't even receive revenue sharing or compensation picks because they aren't a small market team; meanwhile the Twins and Cardinals both receive competitive balance picks. 

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3 minutes ago, fathom said:

Unless you’re Kevin Durant. But it’s true, I don’t blame Sox fans for not buying jerseys. Who would have even been “cool” to wear one of over last five years?  Abreu, that’s it.

That Sale guy

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2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yes. Sox gear was everywhere in 2006 - how quickly people forget. 

As the article states - the Sox aren't the Mets. No where in New York is MET first. Chicago is actually split and divided. The Sox have no excuses. They ran payroll in the top 5-7 for years.  They can afford it. The Sox don't even receive revenue sharing or compensation picks because they aren't a small market team; meanwhile the Twins and Cardinals both receive competitive balance picks. 

They absolutely are the Mets. 100% there is nowhere in Chicago that is Sox first, outside of Bridgeport. I vehemently disagree with that article. I don't believe one bit of it. That may have been true in 2006, but the success of the Cubs in 2007-08 and then again from 2014-present has shifted the landscape drastically. 

Edited by Jack Parkman
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2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

But if you're going to suck again anyway, you have to REALLY suck. That is how they got this far anyway. If you're a smart fan you realize this. You maximize your window, then Tanks and start the process over again. 

That's not really how it's supposed to work. Sustained success is suppose to consist of consistent drafting and development - head started by being bad at the beginning and stockpiling your system. Then you are supposed to sign the ones you want to keep, trade the ones you can afford to trade for younger controllable pieces and continue on your journey of success. The concept of a rebuild is never to rebuild, be good for 5 years, and then be bad for 5 again to rebuild again. Rebuilding from the ground up is supposed to allow you to maintain excellence for 10 years+. You should be good twice as long as you were required to be bad for to become good.

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5 minutes ago, fathom said:

Unless you’re Kevin Durant. But it’s true, I don’t blame Sox fans for not buying jerseys. Who would have even been “cool” to wear one of over last five years?  Abreu, that’s it.

Jeff Keppinger

Edited by Ben Waffleson

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1 minute ago, LittleHurt05 said:

Fair about the ownership, I'll sway away from that.

I just think that in some cases stupid money makes sense.  And if there ever is a case, it's the White Sox right now.  It's very rare for players of this caliber at this age to hit the free agent market. Given their prospect timeframe and current payroll, the situation will rarely make more sense than now.  You can't wait for free agents in the future because they may end up staying put or another desperate team may show up.

And the team gets enough revenue that it won't cripple anything financially.  The only way it could really hurt the bottom line is if your front office does a poor job, but in that case, you were screwed from day one anyway with the people that were hired.

I agree! if this front office loses on Manny I truly believe it will set back this franchise years in the eyes and support of the fans. Yes, if there ever was a time for the ownership to step up and get this done it is now and with Machado!

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1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

They absolutely are the Mets. 100% there is nowhere in Chicago that is Sox first, outside of Bridgeport. 

I just presented a map that had like 30 places on it that had more Sox fans than Cubs. What are you talking about? My town is listed as 42/40 and it's not a small place. The majority of the West and South Chicagoland area had more Sox fans than Cub fans. I have no idea why you want to dismiss that.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run

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7 minutes ago, fathom said:

He had one big game for them, and that was game 5 of WS.  Besides that, he was bad. Come on, he made Conor look like a crusher.

How could they possibly make do without the guy who saved 58% of his opportunities. 

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6 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

They absolutely are the Mets. 100% there is nowhere in Chicago that is Sox first, outside of Bridgeport. 

Mt. Greenwood, Canaryville, Midway, Beverly, Morgan Park, Pilsen, East Side, Hegewisch to name a few. 

Edit: Add in Oak Lawn, Blue Island, EP because they might as well be the city too.

Edited by mqr
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2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

They absolutely are the Mets. 100% there is nowhere in Chicago that is Sox first, outside of Bridgeport. 

Then they obviously need to work on that and a huge step would be the signing of Manny Machado!

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Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I just presented a map that had like 30 places on it that had more Sox fans than Cubs. What are you talking about man? My town is listed as 42/40 and it's not a small place.

I don't buy it. I could have bought it in 2005-06 but not in 2019. The last decade and a half has turned the Sox into the Mets. 

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2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

That's not really how it's supposed to work. Sustained success is suppose to consist of consistent drafting and development - head started by being bad at the beginning and stockpiling your system. Then you are supposed to sign the ones you want to keep, trade the ones you can afford to trade for younger controllable pieces and continue on your journey of success. The concept of a rebuild is never to rebuild, be good for 5 years, and then be bad for 5 again to rebuild again. Rebuilding from the ground up is supposed to allow you to maintain excellence for 10 years+. You should be good twice as long as you were required to be bad for to become good.

Exactly.

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3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

They absolutely are the Mets. 100% there is nowhere in Chicago that is Sox first, outside of Bridgeport. I vehemently disagree with that article. I don't believe one bit of it. That may have been true in 2006, but the success of the Cubs in 2007-08 and then again from 2014-present has shifted the landscape drastically. 

and one more comment;

yes, since 2007 you see more Cubs gear because the Cubs are good. I don't see much Bulls gear around right now, is it because there are no Bulls fans left? No, it's because the Bulls are the worst team in the NBA. No one wants to rep that stuff.

When the Sox are good again, you'll see plenty of Sox gear and coverage and you'll be reminded why judging a teams fan base based on their enthusiasm during following 3 HORRENDOUS years isn't the best way to evaluate the fan base. 

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4 minutes ago, LittleHurt05 said:

Fair about the ownership, I'll sway away from that.

I just think that in some cases stupid money makes sense.  And if there ever is a case, it's the White Sox right now.  It's very rare for players of this caliber at this age to hit the free agent market. Given their prospect timeframe and current payroll, the situation will rarely make more sense than now.  You can't wait for free agents in the future because they may end up staying put or another desperate team may show up.

And the team gets enough revenue that it won't cripple anything financially.  The only way it could really hurt the bottom line is if your front office does a poor job, but in that case, you were screwed from day one anyway with the people that were hired.

I'll be the first in line to say this Machado/Harper situation is a joke in terms of more teams not being involved, and Machado sitting on maybe a $175 million dollar contract as the best offer out there. I'm someone that believes LeBron James should be making $75 million a year, because he's worth that to a franchise (but that won't happen for a number or reasons right now which I understand.) 

I don't think a contract of 10/325 or something is that outlandish for the value Machado should provide over the lifespan of the deal. I guess my point has been for whatever the reason is, that money isn't being offered by ANYONE right now, and if I ran a business, why would I go out of my way to outbid everyone else by $75 million dollars? That's the unfortunate reality for players right now. 

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3 minutes ago, EL1 said:

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That guy has been spewing random rumors all winter and has never been right

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4 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

That's not really how it's supposed to work. Sustained success is suppose to consist of consistent drafting and development - head started by being bad at the beginning and stockpiling your system. Then you are supposed to sign the ones you want to keep, trade the ones you can afford to trade for younger controllable pieces and continue on your journey of success. The concept of a rebuild is never to rebuild, be good for 5 years, and then be bad for 5 again to rebuild again. Rebuilding from the ground up is supposed to allow you to maintain excellence for 10 years+. You should be good twice as long as you were required to be bad for to become good.

The luxury tax is acting as a de facto salary cap. That only works that way if you could spend unlimited dollars. You can't. There are caps on the draft, International spending, etc. It is going to work differently from this point forward. Sustained Success is a myth. You can draft a core group of players, ride them out for a decade or so, but then after that all bets -re off. This is going to be cyclical similar to the NHL. Good for 7-10 years, mediocre for 2-4 years, then start the rebuild process over again. That is how it is done now. Don't like it? Don't watch sports. 

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4 minutes ago, Tony said:

I'll be the first in line to say this Machado/Harper situation is a joke in terms of more teams not being involved, and Machado sitting on maybe a $175 million dollar contract as the best offer out there. I'm someone that believes LeBron James should be making $75 million a year, because he's worth that to a franchise (but that won't happen for a number or reasons right now which I understand.) 

I don't think a contract of 10/325 or something is that outlandish for the value Machado should provide over the lifespan of the deal. I guess my point has been for whatever the reason is, that money isn't being offered by ANYONE right now, and if I ran a business, why would I go out of my way to outbid everyone else by $75 million dollars? That's the unfortunate reality for players right now. 

Wow Tony, we're in 100% agreement here. 

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