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Manny: Nope, still no news

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3 minutes ago, wegner said:

Sorry, just having a moment of panic.  Thanks for the reassurance.  I do think Hahn got Alonso and Jay as a kind of tie breaker for a top offer the Sox are going to make.

Ok, I got the good feelings back.  We will have Manny signed by sometime next week!!!!

Except the Phillies have also countered with Dickerson, the infield coach for the Orioles who was let go at the end of the season.

Looks like the playing field is basically even at this point, just comes down to the best offer.

The Phillies can’t afford to lose Machado if they get the feeling today in Vegas that Harper is just a pipe dream and using them to bring other bids out.

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7 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Except the Phillies have also countered with Dickerson, the infield coach for the Orioles who was let go at the end of the season.

Looks like the playing field is basically even at this point, just comes down to the best offer.

The Phillies can’t afford to lose Machado if they get the feeling today in Vegas that Harper is just a pipe dream and using them to bring other bids out.

You think an infield coach trumps your brother in law and one of your best friends? 

I agree these people won’t be any deal breaking move and it will come down to money but I think the point was they are going to be in this thing until the end, 

Edited by beckham15

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2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

In a positive or negative way?  End of negotiations/bidding or end of the world, lol?

Yes.  🙃

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4 minutes ago, beckham15 said:

You think an infield coach trumps your brother in law and one of your best friends? 

Caulfield

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4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Except the Phillies have also countered with Dickerson, the infield coach for the Orioles who was let go at the end of the season.

Looks like the playing field is basically even at this point, just comes down to the best offer.

The Phillies can’t afford to lose Machado if they get the feeling today in Vegas that Harper is just a pipe dream and using them to bring other bids out.

I wouldn't say that. I have coaches who mentored me but I'd rather play with the dude who let me dance horizontally with his hot sister and another close every day friend. I'm not hanging out with old mentors in Chicago. 

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14 hours ago, NotHahn said:

Make a list of questions and I'll see what I can do. 

So meeting is at noon, assuming CST, at a birthday party and has about 40 minutes? so should I assume you slip into a bathroom around 1245 and update is posted by like 1255?! Haha

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If the Phillies didn’t think it would matter...then why do it?

If Machado doesn’t end up with the White Sox, obviously that coach won’t be the main reason...on the other hand, the Phillies also aren’t spending $13 million on one of the most reputable infield coaches in the business.  If you count keeping Castillo around over Narvaez and Smith, that’s approximately $20 million invested in Machado’s comfort level, versus $200-250,000.

 

Edited by caulfield12

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6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

If the Phillies didn’t think it would matter...then why do it?

If Machado doesn’t end up with the White Sox, obviously that coach won’t be the main reason...on the other hand, the Phillies also aren’t spending $13 million on one of the most reputable infield coaches in the business.  If you count keeping Castillo around over Narvaez and Smith, that $20 million invested in Machado comfort level, versus $200-250,000.

 

Maybe because they have nothing and are grasping at straws, if they don’t land him they can just fire the infield coach not a big deal, no harm no foul sort of deal. 

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2 hours ago, EloyJenkins said:

I wonder if I am the only one that would rather have harpchado over trout. The ages....the potential for 10-12 WAR (combined) seasons and the fact that we can trade our outfield prospect depth for other needs just seems better than paying 45-48 million a year for trout. And as great as trout is...Harper still gets equal or more buzz being an inferior player.

I think the reality is we’ll never be able to win a bidding war for Trout.  He’s so damn good that every major spender with sufficient payroll space will be in the mix.  I have no doubt the Yankees and many others already have their eye on the 2020/2021 offseason.  Knowing that Mookie Betts could be the consolation prize provides even more incentive to wait if you’re already a 90+ win team with no gaping holes.  Their markets are going to be crazy and I just don’t see us winning those sweepstakes.

We’re also very lucky that Harper and Machado both have their warts.  Bryce due to his health, inconsistencies, & defensive concerns & Manny because of potential characters flaw.  The fact there are only a couple teams in the mix for these guys is absolutely bonkers, but speaks volume to the desire of teams to  spend $300M or more on these guys.  If this year’s market isn’t the definition of “right time right place” for us then I don’t know what is because both of these guys fill huge needs for us (impact 3B & face of franchise star) and are the perfect age to fit our projected window.  We can potentially add 11 WAR / year (for the next 4 or 5 years) for around $70M annually, which is basically paying $7M per win.  That’s a fucking steal in this day & age, especially when you consider the premium we should be paying for all that WAR coming out of two spots.  Trout may provide even better value over the first few years of his deal, but who really cares if we can’t land him.  Instead, let’s take advantage of this year’s market and add two 26 year old whales while we actually can.

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4 minutes ago, beckham15 said:

Maybe because they have nothing and are grasping at straws, if they don’t land him they can just fire the infield coach not a big deal, no harm no foul sort of deal. 

Or it could be a lot of the Phillies front office has a Baltimore background and they needed a coach , are very familiar with him,so they brought him in.

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2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I think the reality is we’ll never be able to win a bidding war for Trout.  He’s so damn good that every major spender with sufficient payroll space will be in the mix.  I have no doubt the Yankees and many others already have their eye on the 2020/2021 offseason.  Knowing that Mookie Betts could be the consolation prize provides even more incentive to wait if you’re already a 90+ win team with no gaping holes.  Their markets are going to be crazy and I just don’t see us winning those sweepstakes.

We’re also very lucky that Harper and Machado both have their warts.  Bryce due to his health, inconsistencies, & defensive concerns & Manny because of potential characters flaw.  The fact there are only a couple teams in the mix for these guys is absolutely bonkers, but speaks volume to the desire of teams to  spend $300M or more on these guys.  If this year’s market isn’t the definition of “right time right place” for us then I don’t know what is because both of these guys fill huge needs for us (impact 3B & face of franchise star) and are the perfect age to fit our projected window.  We can potentially add 11 WAR / year (for the next 4 or 5 years) for around $70M annually, which is basically paying $7M per win.  That’s a fucking steal in this day & age, especially when you consider the premium we should be paying for all that WAR coming out of two spots.  Trout may provide even better value over the first few years of his deal, but who really cares if we can’t land him.  Instead, let’s take advantage of this year’s market and add two 26 year old whales while we actually can.

Yeah this, no chance Mike Trout picks the Whitesox over all the other suitors he’s going to have, I think we have been lucky and gotten as far as we have with these two because of how few teams are in the race for them. Strike now, sign both and continue the push forward with the rebuild

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6 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Or it could be a lot of the Phillies front office has a Baltimore background and they needed a coach , are very familiar with him,so they brought him in.

No doubt they needed a coach, they were one of the worst infields in all of baseball last year, still with that move I don’t see how it puts philly on an even playing field with the Sox. The only way I see Manny getting outside our grasps is if we don’t pay the guy, Philly has stupid money but I don’t view them as that much of a threat 

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Spiegs and Levine are arguing with callers over the Jay, Yonder, Colome, Herrera adds.   They're being super positive.

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Dan Clark lol maybe going into Australian politics. The Internet is becoming one big scam alert. 

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The real question of today is whether the Phillies can afford to wait two more years on Trout...passing on Machado and Harper.

 

Realistically, If you go back to the Royals/Cubs/Astros, they weren’t even close to paying $7 million per WAR (other than Lester or Shields), the majority of their numbers came from internal development, international signings and trades.   That said, the White Sox might not have a choice, especially with the Kopech injury.

That ROI on two whales seems “fine” as an evaluative number in isolation....but that also means $160-175 million as a payroll in 2021-22-23.   I guess we have to believe it when we actually see it.

Edited by caulfield12

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Just now, pcq said:

Dan Clark lol maybe going into Australian politics. The Internet is becoming one big scam alert. 

He might want to start a GoFundMe...

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14 minutes ago, beckham15 said:

Yeah this, no chance Mike Trout picks the Whitesox over all the other suitors he’s going to have, I think we have been lucky and gotten as far as we have with these two because of how few teams are in the race for them. Strike now, sign both and continue the push forward with the rebuild

Yup, and the part I love about adding both is you suddenly have a ton of expendable pieces.  We could build a nasty package to acquire a cost-controlled TOR and still maintain plenty of prospect depth.  It advances the rebuild quickly without jeapordizing it’s long term viability.  Just makes too much sense IMO.

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19 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

The real question of today is whether the Phillies can afford to wait two more years on Trout...passing on Machado and Harper.

 

Realistically, If you go back to the Royals/Cubs/Astros, they weren’t even close to paying $7 million per WAR (other than Lester or Shields), the majority of their numbers came from internal development, international signings and trades.   That said, the White Sox might not have a choice, especially with the Kopech injury.

That ROI on two whales seems “fine” as an evaluative number in isolation....but that also means $160-175 million as a payroll in 2021-22-23.   I guess we have to believe it when we actually see it.

If the angels are in the 78-82 win territory this year they may be able to trade for him next year

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7 minutes ago, bmags said:

If the angels are in the 78-82 win territory this year they may be able to trade for him next year

Yeah. And with the Phillies expected to be good, trading for one year of him makes more sense than when the Sox had interest in trading for Machado.

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9 minutes ago, bmags said:

If the angels are in the 78-82 win territory this year they may be able to trade for him next year

I mean if we got Machado + Harper, WE could trade for Trout...

Jimenez+Moncada+Kopech+++

Leaves us with an OF of Trout, Harper and Robert—then you slide Madrigal in at 2B...

You just couldn’t afford to field any other players, and you’d have to figure out a way to roster a pitcher, but I still like our chances with that big 3!

Edited by FT35

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White sox 100% have to get Machado (or at least 1)

White sox 100% should be IN on both and ready to pay up big.

If we miss out on one due to Phillies overpaying, there's nothing we can do about that.

But if we miss out on both... that is unforgiveable at this point. 

Cheers

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Just now, FT35 said:

I mean if we got Machado + Harper, WE could trade for Trout...

Jimenez+Moncada+Kopech+++

Leaves us with an OF of Trout, Harper and Robert—then you slide Madrigal in at 2B...

You just couldn’t afford to field any other players, and you’d have to figure out a way to roster a pitcher, but I still like our chances with that big 3.

No way I make that deal for Trout who likely leaves us due to Free Agency. 

It might work in fantasy baseball 12 team leagues where it makes sense to load up on stars and scrubs, but I'd rather have a more complete team and I think Jim, Moncada, and Kopech are part of that. 

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