bmags Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 minute ago, Balta1701 said: I do like how I called it "Feel good" spending and you described this a "Feely" stuff We were entering a year, though, where with the exception of Palka and Jose Rondon I felt like all of our "give them mlb time" players had hit their ceiling and I was not sad to see time be reallocated prior to the next wave. If these players truly support more longterm players, great. However, these may also be some bones thrown to Renteria. If he sucks with some vets added and bullpen pieces, then it gives more rational for judgment time. Rondon I'm actually feeling a bit of a pinch that they may have something there and he may not get a healthy opportunity unless he adds outfield versatility to his INF versatility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 He has made 2 errors, in the last 4 seasons. I don't know how much his range his diminished, but that is a pretty steady glove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
he gone. Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I think if you took the "Here's an outside path to 82 wins next season" threads from last month and told them that we've added $40 million to our payroll by adding Colome, Herrera, Jay, Nova, Alonso, and that catcher who isn't even worth remembering, while Subtracting Narvaez and Davidson, the people who thought we had an outside shot to compete in 2019 would spit on you. Right now, I think we've taken a 62 win team and left it in the low 60's. At least we still get to add Eloy in, that'll be a legit boost if he can stay healthy. I will bet my entire years salary we win more than 62 games this year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, Princess Dye said: Jon Jay wearing a paper bag over his head is a better hitter than Engel 2nd half of last year - Adam Engel .668 OPS, Jon Jay .619. He shoulda tried hitting without the bag, it didn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said: I will bet my entire years salary we win more than 62 games this year. I sure as hell wouldn't. One or two injuries out of Eloy and Lopez and Rodon and this roster suddenly looks like a nightmare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sockin Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Tinfoil hat theory: Manny asked the Sox to do this as part of an agreement because Jay was not getting any interest as a FA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 37 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: He's an aging guy who is spending less and less time in CF, with no pop. If it doesn't bring Machado, it's a ridiculous signing. Who would you have played in CF instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Until he signed, no one mentioned Jay as an nice option for this team. So you can try to spin it all you want. This signing is for one purpose. If it works, outstanding. If it doesn't, eventually all these $9 million, and $4 million gambles will add up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 minute ago, Dick Allen said: Until he signed, no one mentioned Jay as an nice option for this team. So you can try to spin it all you want. This signing is for one purpose. If it works, outstanding. If it doesn't, eventually all these $9 million, and $4 million gambles will add up. Who would you have played in CF instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTruth05 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Until he signed, no one mentioned Jay as an nice option for this team. So you can try to spin it all you want. This signing is for one purpose. If it works, outstanding. If it doesn't, eventually all these $9 million, and $4 million gambles will add up. Add up for 1 year, in what will be a lost year anyway if they don't land Manny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capital G Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Just now, Dick Allen said: Until he signed, no one mentioned Jay as an nice option for this team. So you can try to spin it all you want. This signing is for one purpose. If it works, outstanding. If it doesn't, eventually all these $9 million, and $4 million gambles will add up. No one thinks he was a nice option. But he is a better option than Engel/L Garcia. What impact would this "gamble" of 4 mill have? If MM does not sign we continue with the rebuild and Jay is off the roster at season's end. If he gets us MM then we celebrate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Who would you have played in CF instead? Leury, Engel...not John Jay. How come you never mentioned Jay until last night if he is such a good fit? He isn't very good. We all know why he is a White Sox. If Manny Machado was not a potential signing, there is zero chance they would bring this guy in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: 2nd half of last year - Adam Engel .668 OPS, Jon Jay .619. He shoulda tried hitting without the bag, it didn't work. Grabbing a little tiny sample to suit your needs. Over time we have seen Jay have some bat to ball skills at the MLB level. If he's done-done, then fine, we'll risk little in it. Engel meanwhile not only hasnt done it at MLB level, I cant even really say i saw him do that @ MiLB level. In the minors Engel still had his monster K rates + no power schtick going on. Edited January 8, 2019 by Princess Dye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, Tony said: Add up....to what, exactly? They are one year deals (I know Alonso has the option but they can control if if vests). They aren’t winning anything in 2019, with or without Machado. So what are these deals hurting long term? Because it's money that has already been spent and cannot be spent when they need it. Again, if Machado is a White Sox, it's brilliant. If he isn't, it's ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 51 minutes ago, Quin said: Also, like, if he sucks and one of the Luises, Rutherford or Cordell show they deserve playing time...it's $4M. Yep, if he sucks, over the side he goes into the ocean and into Caulfield "remember when" lore. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, Tony said: Correct. So what’s the problem. Explain to us how Jon Jay for one season, even if they don’t get Manny Machado, hurts this team long term? Because Garcia and Engel aren’t getting as many AB’s?!? Because it is money and playing time you can't give to someone more useful. Why didn't the White Sox just sign a bunch of one year free agents last year to try to win 80 games? Jay in CF actually may wind up an overall downgrade from Engel, and I am about as sick of watching Adam Engel try to hit as anyone. Now you squeeze out another OF, which is fine if they get Machado. But if they don't, it's dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 I don't know, one thing I wanted to see when we started trying to sign productive free agents again is that the front office had a better eye. If we miss out on machado and these players are bad then I will once again be wondering if we have a front office capable of using every avenue to build a winning roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREEDY Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Not saying this isn't going to work but put me firmly in the "Machado would prefer the $13,000,000" camp. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, Tony said: When they need it when? You have NO IDEA what their payroll structure will look like. None. Clearly they are a finalist for Manny Machado, a guy in line for one of the largest contacts in MLB history. The notion the Sox would be players for him or Bryce a year ago was laughable. You’re getting upset because you want to get upset. It’s nothing. I know I don't. What I do know is if you spend $4 million or $9 million now and not put it in the bank, when you are looking to add payroll next year, your bank account won't have that $13 million you spent . I am not upset at all as long as this works. If it doesn't work, it's foolish. They have already spent $13 million on Manny's friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 8 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Leury, Engel...not John Jay. How come you never mentioned Jay until last night if he is such a good fit? He isn't very good. We all know why he is a White Sox. If Manny Machado was not a potential signing, there is zero chance they would bring this guy in. I didn't mention Jay because whenever I mentioned a CF option, I mentioned Pollock. He would have been my choice, but he is also going to be expensive and cost a pick, and has risky. This is the FA CF list: Center fielders AJ Pollock Adam Jones (no longer a CF) Billy Hamilton (off the board) Eric Young Jr Rajai Davis Austin Jackson Jon Jay I'd say they got one of the better options, for super cheap 1 year deal, and he has supplemental benefits. Don't get why anyone would complain about this. If he sucks, so what. But he's very likely going to be better than Engel, who absolute best case scenario is the 4th OF on the next Sox playoff team, so I am not losing any sleep. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 12 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: 2nd half of last year - Adam Engel .668 OPS, Jon Jay .619. He shoulda tried hitting without the bag, it didn't work. Again, OPS is not that relevant for a #2 hole hitter. Focus on OBP: 2018 OBP: Engel .275 vs. Jay .330 Moreover, Jay had a decent first half, with the Royals, in our division, before being traded. He hit .277 with a .346 in the first half, and had very limited playing time, in the second half, when his numbers fell, dramatically. Put another way, would you even dream of batting Engel in the 2 hole? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, bmags said: I don't know, one thing I wanted to see when we started trying to sign productive free agents again is that the front office had a better eye. If we miss out on machado and these players are bad then I will once again be wondering if we have a front office capable of using every avenue to build a winning roster. The excuse will be they were never meant to actually perform well...they were merely “seed funding” to bring Machado into the fold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Yeah, I have to say if white sox are acquiring these guys without any signal that it will benefit them in negotiations I will be disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: The excuse will be they were never meant to actually perform well...they were merely “seed funding” to bring Machado into the fold. But if that's in lieu of offering the most money it's naive. I'm very optimistic that Machado is indeed going to find his way here and these will be incredibly creative and interesting ways to lure a free agent. BUT, there is indeed a scenario that sox made these out of desperation and as a substitute for a bid that would lure him on its own, and that to me is not a "well we tried, what more could we have done" reaction, it's a "look at the fools being fools again". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, bmags said: Yeah, I have to say if white sox are acquiring these guys without any signal that it will benefit them in negotiations I will be disappointed. When they traded for Alonso, I figured it was a done deal. But, apparently no. Now Jay. They have to have been told something. I guess the danger here is when it's time to say goodbye to them, is Manny going to be OK with that? I sure wish he made more friends at All Star games. Edited January 8, 2019 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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