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vilehoopster

Is anyone else embarrassed and somewhat worried about the lengths White Sox going to get Machado?

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7 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I respect the question but John Jay doesn't exactly hit. He doesn't steal bases. He doesn't knock in runs. I'd rather have righty hitting Engel. This article says it all. We got him to get Manny, his pal. That's fine, but doesn't mean I have to not fall asleep watching Jon Jay play ball.    https://southsideshowdown.com/2019/01/08/white-sox-sign-jon-jay/

And if Engel could hit the Sox wouldn't have a need for a left handed bat to platoon him with. Engel primarily still has his job by default because there is nobody else ready in the minors and the Sox need his speed in the outfield to help compensate for the bad corner outfield defense.

Edited by BlackSox13

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6 hours ago, vilehoopster said:

Because I am both embarrassed and worried. 

We get his brother-in-law for $9 million when there's no place to play him ? That's not enough so we then sign his other MIami training partner? Did White Sox keep Castillo at catcher and get rid of the other two because Castillo is a Machado buddy? 

Too me, there is a level of desperation here that is approaching pathetic. It's embarrassing, and it's gonna be super/ ultra/ meta (pick your adjective of choice) embarassing if Sox did all this and then don't get Machado. Seriously, signing his buddies and then not signing Machado will make the Sox a laughing stock of the league, and much worse, of the fans on the North Side. 

Plus I have another worry. What if we do sign him? Are we creating a prima donna who will be impossible to control. If we have a Machado and his buddies clubhouse, who is gonna really be running the team? Are the Sox setting themselves up for a situation like Lebron James had in Cleveland? James ran the Cavaliers for a while there. He told the owners to fire the coach and bring him his choice as coach and the Cleveland owners did what he said. He told them who to trade and trades to make and the owners did that too. If once we do get Manny, isn't there a real possibility that this could happen with the White Sox. 

First of all, there are indications that Machado can be a problem: the dirty play (stomping 1st basemen's feet). There's also the lazy play; you know you're lazy when you get booed in LA during the World Series. So, he does have issues coming in. 

So we got his buddies for him. Is it really a stretch to think that he will imput and where and when his buddies play? If he's unhappy because his buddies aren't playing, is it the really that hard to to think that word might come down from up high that his buddies need to be playing more and at whatever position they want? If he's unhappy with Renteria for getting on him to hustle more and work harder, is Rick gone? I could see this happening. Couldn't you?

Also, what position is Machado going to play?  We all assume 3rd base. But doesn't he prefer shortstop? What if he insists on playing short?  Is it bye bye Anderson after the Sox invested all that time in him and he's finally ready to start paying off. 

By looking at some of the comments on the various threads, I think there are some who agree with me that our pursuit of Machodo has become . . . . something. 

All we can do is let it play out. Some posters are a little over the top and Twitter is not much help. 

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6 hours ago, macsandz said:

At the current state of negotiations these are not "embarrassing" attempts to lure. 

I’d rather have Alonso, Jay and the 3rd pick in June’s draft to make Manny’s transition more comfortable and “lure” him than lose Dunning, Basabe + (and lower draft pick) 6 months ago to have Manny get comfortable with the org and sign here.

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19 minutes ago, Goober said:

It's like a kid without friends who buys stuff for the cool kid to get him to hang out with him

I think there may be some users here that did that to be allowed to stay on this site...

Edited by Ross Gload Fan
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Whatever happened to the rebuild? If you weren't on board with it you generally got ripped. If you're not for signing MM you don't gain much favor for that either. So what happened to the rebuild? My guess and that's all it is, leads me to believe that they realize their rebuild is not going well. In which case they wouldn't be wrong. As for MM, as talented as he is to me it looks like Albert Belle Part II. As for the signings Alonso is meh OK and Jay is not. I'm not doing cartwheels over all of this.  

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1 hour ago, SI1020 said:

Whatever happened to the rebuild? If you weren't on board with it you generally got ripped. If you're not for signing MM you don't gain much favor for that either. So what happened to the rebuild? My guess and that's all it is, leads me to believe that they realize their rebuild is not going well. In which case they wouldn't be wrong. As for MM, as talented as he is to me it looks like Albert Belle Part II. As for the signings Alonso is meh OK and Jay is not. I'm not doing cartwheels over all of this.  

This is part of the rebuild.  Adding a 26 year old superstar on a longterm deal while we have cheap controllable assets everywhere else.  It was the plan this whole time.

 

Albert Belle II?  Belle was in his 30s, that makes no sense.  And while we're on Belle, what's wrong with Albert Belle?  1 good 1 absolutely incredible season here.

Edited by bschmaranz
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21 minutes ago, bschmaranz said:

This is part of the rebuild.  Adding a 26 year old superstar on a longterm deal while we have cheap controllable assets everywhere else.  It was the plan this whole time.

 

Albert Belle II?  Belle was in his 30s, that makes no sense.  And while we're on Belle, what's wrong with Albert Belle?  1 good 1 absolutely incredible season here.

Oh man Joey was fun to watch in 98. His numbers that year are ridiculous and he did it before the fences were moved in. 

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Just now, BlackSox13 said:

Oh man Joey was fun to watch in 98. His numbers that year are ridiculous and he did it before the fences were moved in. 

If you're looking at total bases, 30th best season ever.  He was insane.

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2 hours ago, SI1020 said:

Whatever happened to the rebuild? If you weren't on board with it you generally got ripped. If you're not for signing MM you don't gain much favor for that either. So what happened to the rebuild? My guess and that's all it is, leads me to believe that they realize their rebuild is not going well. In which case they wouldn't be wrong. As for MM, as talented as he is to me it looks like Albert Belle Part II. As for the signings Alonso is meh OK and Jay is not. I'm not doing cartwheels over all of this.  

Hopefully the rebuild continues; Machado is a key element - Alonso and  Jay are just Machado attractors ...at least I hope.

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3 hours ago, GreenSox said:

Hopefully the rebuild continues; Machado is a key element - Alonso and  Jay are just Machado attractors ...at least I hope.

Machado's Magnets!  Although I'm still going with Machado's Muchachos for now.

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10 hours ago, bschmaranz said:

If you're looking at total bases, 30th best season ever.  He was insane.

Yes he was. I spent many weekends at the park that year and watched him do alot of damage. Though the memories are obscured by the amount beer consumed that summer. 

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1 minute ago, BlackSox13 said:

Yes he was. I spent many weekends at the park that year and watched him do alot of damage. Though the memories are obscured by the amount beer consumed that summer. 

Thats awesome.  I wished I had gone to more games during that era.  I was a junior in high school that season though, so not like I had the means.

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It was a blast. My buddy and I were always there two hours before game time to split a case of beer in the parking lot. Used to it in the lower deck reserved near the Sox pen and talk with the bullpen pitchers before the game. Then we had the pen laughing when we would start talking trash to the other teams LF. We were relentless, lol.

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3 minutes ago, BlackSox13 said:

It was a blast. My buddy and I were always there two hours before game time to split a case of beer in the parking lot. Used to it in the lower deck reserved near the Sox pen and talk with the bullpen pitchers before the game. Then we had the pen laughing when we would start talking trash to the other teams LF. We were relentless, lol.

We used to do that too.  Once had BJ Surhoff screaming at me cuz I asked Brady Anderson if I could borrow his vagina.

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15 minutes ago, BlackSox13 said:

Yes he was. I spent many weekends at the park that year and watched him do alot of damage. Though the memories are obscured by the amount beer consumed that summer. 

His second half was insane. 76 games 31 homers, 26 doubles .387/.451/.816 split. He almost had a 1.300 OPS the last half of a MLB season.

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21 minutes ago, bschmaranz said:

We used to do that too.  Once had BJ Surhoff screaming at me cuz I asked Brady Anderson if I could borrow his vagina.

LMFAO! That's hysterical. We got to LF Rusty Greer pretty good one game. We started on him before the game and it carried all the way through. He made an error in the first inning and that opened the flood gates. We were so far up his ass that day he went 0-4 with 4 deep fly ball outs to Left and Left-center. Everytime he came back to LF we would hold our arms out and tell him he was that close. He laughed one of the times we did it.

I asked Otis Nixon if the government new he was collecting social security while he was still playing. Don't think he liked that one.

Edited by BlackSox13

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16 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

His second half was insane. 76 games 31 homers, 26 doubles .387/.451/.816 split. He almost had a 1.300 OPS the last half of a MLB season.

I was working second shift at the time so I spent alot of time listening to games at work. It seemed like everytime someone asked me how the game was going I would respond with " Albert hit another". He was truly was insane that year and especially the second half, as you pointed out. 

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If the Sox sign Machado who is really going to care what it took to get him? I won't!! I just want them to get it done!

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30 minutes ago, Saufley said:

If the Sox sign Machado who is really going to care what it took to get him? I won't!! I just want them to get it done!

I would give Lyle Mouton a 10 year, $20 million contract to play for the current White Sox if I knew we netted Machado by doing so.

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2 hours ago, BlackSox13 said:

I was working second shift at the time so I spent alot of time listening to games at work. It seemed like everytime someone asked me how the game was going I would respond with " Albert hit another". He was truly was insane that year and especially the second half, as you pointed out. 

I really don't get how he was 8th in MVP votes that year.  His numbers were just pure insanity.  Better than everyone above him.

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13 hours ago, bschmaranz said:

This is part of the rebuild.  Adding a 26 year old superstar on a longterm deal while we have cheap controllable assets everywhere else.  It was the plan this whole time.

 

Albert Belle II?  Belle was in his 30s, that makes no sense.  And while we're on Belle, what's wrong with Albert Belle?  1 good 1 absolutely incredible season here.

Belle, great player and a bigger jerk. Reinsdorf signed him IMO to flip off the owners, or at least those he thought were throwing around too much money. His signing did not lead to anything special for the Sox. Even if I get a lot of thumbs down I think this is veering from the course. Up until very recently the thought of signing free agents was mostly rebuked in favor of letting all that great young talent develop. Then and only then signing free agents was to be the cherry on top. I also believe that Machado is going to press hard to be a regular SS, which I don't believe is his best position. The rebuild is not going well. The first wave of talent has not come close to meeting expectations and the luck factor was very bad with all the injuries, including Kopech and those down on the farm. Whatever. Not popular views I'm sure but if Greg can take the heat he gets so can I. Also I'm not convinced the Sox are going to sign Manny. I think the market is softer than he was lead to believe and he is biding his time waiting for someone to break and make him that blockbuster offer he thought would be there.  In the meantime everything looks like a solid mess,

 

http://www.philly.com/phillies/manny-machado-white-sox-phillies-espn-buster-onley-usa-today-bob-nightengale-dan-lozano-20190117.html

 

 

 

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On 1/8/2019 at 11:05 AM, vilehoopster said:

Because I am both embarrassed and worried. 

We get his brother-in-law for $9 million when there's no place to play him ? That's not enough so we then sign his other MIami training partner? Did White Sox keep Castillo at catcher and get rid of the other two because Castillo is a Machado buddy? 

Too me, there is a level of desperation here that is approaching pathetic. It's embarrassing, and it's gonna be super/ ultra/ meta (pick your adjective of choice) embarassing if Sox did all this and then don't get Machado. Seriously, signing his buddies and then not signing Machado will make the Sox a laughing stock of the league, and much worse, of the fans on the North Side. 

Plus I have another worry. What if we do sign him? Are we creating a prima donna who will be impossible to control. If we have a Machado and his buddies clubhouse, who is gonna really be running the team? Are the Sox setting themselves up for a situation like Lebron James had in Cleveland? James ran the Cavaliers for a while there. He told the owners to fire the coach and bring him his choice as coach and the Cleveland owners did what he said. He told them who to trade and trades to make and the owners did that too. If once we do get Manny, isn't there a real possibility that this could happen with the White Sox. 

First of all, there are indications that Machado can be a problem: the dirty play (stomping 1st basemen's feet). There's also the lazy play; you know you're lazy when you get booed in LA during the World Series. So, he does have issues coming in. 

So we got his buddies for him. Is it really a stretch to think that he will imput and where and when his buddies play? If he's unhappy because his buddies aren't playing, is it the really that hard to to think that word might come down from up high that his buddies need to be playing more and at whatever position they want? If he's unhappy with Renteria for getting on him to hustle more and work harder, is Rick gone? I could see this happening. Couldn't you?

Also, what position is Machado going to play?  We all assume 3rd base. But doesn't he prefer shortstop? What if he insists on playing short?  Is it bye bye Anderson after the Sox invested all that time in him and he's finally ready to start paying off. 

By looking at some of the comments on the various threads, I think there are some who agree with me that our pursuit of Machodo has become . . . . something. 

Embarrassing to who?

Not to this White Sox fan.

Let's talk about dirty play/lazy play. What was AJ Pierzynski's reputation before he came here? What about Dennis Rodman? Would anyone argue with either of those signings in hindsight? I would argue that both came to Reinsdorf teams and grew the fuck up a little, and learned to play hard, sometimes creatively, but they also learned to fit into a scheme to win championships along the way. Remember Rodman kicking the cameraman? I think Machado has some growing up to do, and here he can do it. How? By surrounding him with the right people - a support team he can lean on and an organization hungry to let him be The Man and cater to him.

I'm proud they are pulling out all the stops. It's about fucking time. I watch national media do their best to completely ignore us year after year as we play second fiddle to the Cubs' salad years. THAT'S what's embarrassing. We are the most forgettable also-ran team in any city in America, and we need to do SOMETHING. We need a STAR. Not someone who projects to be a star, not someone who is a can't miss prospect still in the minors. A bona fide, proven, major league STAR. We need to start building that so we can rebuild an actually healthy fanbase. We are losing people in this town as the Cubs reel off 96+ wins a year and the Bears move into championship mode. If we don't do this NOW, we risk 10,000 at the park next August and September.

Manny Machado and Bryce Harper are those stars. Get one of them and LET'S GO.  Whatever it takes.

Edited by Greg Hibbard
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12 minutes ago, SI1020 said:

Belle, great player and a bigger jerk. Reinsdorf signed him IMO to flip off the owners, or at least those he thought were throwing around too much money. His signing did not lead to anything special for the Sox. Even if I get a lot of thumbs down I think this is veering from the course. Up until very recently the thought of signing free agents was mostly rebuked in favor of letting all that great young talent develop. Then and only then signing free agents was to be the cherry on top. I also believe that Machado is going to press hard to be a regular SS, which I don't believe is his best position. The rebuild is not going well. The first wave of talent has not come close to meeting expectations and the luck factor was very bad with all the injuries, including Kopech and those down on the farm. Whatever. Not popular views I'm sure but if Greg can take the heat he gets so can I. Also I'm not convinced the Sox are going to sign Manny. I think the market is softer than he was lead to believe and he is biding his time waiting for someone to break and make him that blockbuster offer he thought would be there.  In the meantime everything looks like a solid mess,

 

http://www.philly.com/phillies/manny-machado-white-sox-phillies-espn-buster-onley-usa-today-bob-nightengale-dan-lozano-20190117.html

 

 

 

The rebuild isn't going well?  If your expectation was for all of these guys to catch fire right out of the gate and be called up in 2018 maybe.

 

Lopez  had a very solid first season and looks to already be a mid-rotation starter.

Moncada, in what is considered a bad first full year still hit 17 HR, had 55 XBH and played solid defense.  

Eloy has raked in every level so far and looks to be no later than mid-April.

Cease looked excellent, especially after his promotion to AA and looks to be on the same trajectory as Kopech was in 2018.

Dunning - similar story to Cease.

Kopech looked like he belonged in the MLB prior to his injury and hopefully will bounce back to be excellent when he returns.

This is without even talking about guys like Basabe, Robert, Madrigal, etc. who are probably 2 years away.  To call the rebuild disappointing this early on is pretty ridiculous.

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