Joc Pederson: 💤💤​​​​​​​💤​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Robert, Madrigal, and even Collins arriving in 2019 are all things we should be skeptical about. A 2019 arrival for the first 2 especially would be the classic Rick Hahn rush.

But, at least if you think Robert is arriving in 2019 you have to think that the idea of trading for Joc is a terrible one because it removes the benefit of the guy being able to play CF. 

12 months; this means entering spring training next year, every one of those guys should be fighting for a spot. 

[GREEDY]

4 minutes ago, Sockin said:

Joey is @ChiliIrishHammock24 who broke the Herrera signing and gave insight into the Machado visit here.

Right, and Ross from Friends is insinuating he thinks Chilli is guessing.  Which is kind of ironic to begin with.  

[Sockin]

I mean FWIW Roeper a few weeks ago was also saying SoxFest was going to be pretty crazy this year. 

[fathom]

Don't know where else to put this, but you want to talk about rebuilding, maybe having a competent coaching staff would help:

 

 

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

12 months; this means entering spring training next year, every one of those guys should be fighting for a spot. 

Collins I can believe. Madrigal and Robert - neither one of them has really done what they need to do in A ball to earn a callup, so AA in 2019 is at least moderately aggressive even if somewhat justifiable. A normal path of AA and AAA - puts them arriving in late 2020. Pushing them upwards before they perform or before they stay healthy - then you're asking them to need time to develop at the big league level, so you better be ok with some struggles that year.

[mqr]

1 minute ago, fathom said:

Don't know where else to put this, but you want to talk about rebuilding, maybe having a competent coaching staff would help:

 

 

To be fair, the Sox don't have anyone on staff that was a MLB catcher for a decade as far as I know.

[he gone.]

10 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

This doesn't even account for the fact that Giolito and Lopez were also MLB ready (Although, IMO, if Gio is ready then this is bad).

Every single major asset they traded Q, Sale and Eaton for were within two years of being Big League ready, and 5 of them were arguably ready when they were acquired. 

To say this rebuild should take 5 years is horribly misguided

Your expectations are too high. If evaluating talent and players values was as easy as you suggest then you should be the GM and we'd be winning world series for the next decades.

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

Don't know where else to put this, but you want to talk about rebuilding, maybe having a competent coaching staff would help:

 

 

This sounds disturbingly similar to the comments Marcus Semien and the A's were making after they acquired him.

[Soxbadger]

2 minutes ago, mqr said:

Not going to lie, I've based all of my arguments on the assumption that if Pederson comes, Manny is coming too. I will concede that Pederson without Manny makes no sense.

 

And that is fair. But also the posts should be prefaced "If we acquire Machado." 

 

Just now, Tony said:

This is correct. Acquiring Joc is in addition to other moves, without question. Alone it doesn't make as much sense. 

And that is the point that I am making. And you cant first trade for Pederson, unless you have Machado for sure locked down. In my time as a White Sox fan, I can count on one hand how many times they have landed a player of Machado's level in free agency (i think you could say 1 finger and be safe.) So while I am hopeful, I just am not overly confident. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, fathom said:

Don't know where else to put this, but you want to talk about rebuilding, maybe having a competent coaching staff would help:

 

 

I mean, it's not as if Seattle has the best history in the world of developing catchers. Not sure they should be throwing stones in their glass house over there.

[Dick Allen]

Just now, mqr said:

To be fair, the Sox don't have anyone on staff that was a MLB catcher for a decade as far as I know.

John Orton is or was their minor league catching coordinator, and he is pretty good. He made Tyler Flowers actually major league acceptable. 

[reiks12]

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

Don't know where else to put this, but you want to talk about rebuilding, maybe having a competent coaching staff would help:

 

 

If Narvaez turns into a framing God I am all for firing our whole development staff. Especially after the Collins comments last season where he said he had to ask his Miami coaches for help.

[ChiSox59]

22 minutes ago, fathom said:

But some of those 1-year deal guys are for veterans with very low ceilings that are likely to take away at bats from the younger guys that you might have wanted to give at bats to (i.e.Jay and Alonso instead of Palka and Delmonico).  Again, I'm beyond fine with these moves if it means Machado.  If not, it will be a giant mess.

Giant mess is a bit of overreaction.  Jay can be released at minimal cost, and the Sox would definitely be able to trade Alonso.  

[Dick Allen]

Also keep in mind Narvaez was in Tampa's system. So it would be a dig at them, and they actually have developed players. Narvaez's problems are because of Narvaez, not coaching.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, BrianAnderson said:

Your expectations are too high. If evaluating talent and players values was as easy as you suggest then you should be the GM and we'd be winning world series for the next decades.

I'm not sure what this means; no one said it was easy. The point of a rebuild - this one in particular - wasn't to be competing in 2021, leaving 2-3 years of control over the majority of the marquee assets we acquired with our deals. 

[fathom]

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

This sounds disturbingly similar to the comments Marcus Semien and the A's were making after they acquired him.

From that same thread:

 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Collins I can believe. Madrigal and Robert - neither one of them has really done what they need to do in A ball to earn a callup, so AA in 2019 is at least moderately aggressive even if somewhat justifiable. A normal path of AA and AAA - puts them arriving in late 2020. Pushing them upwards before they perform or before they stay healthy - then you're asking them to need time to develop at the big league level, so you better be ok with some struggles that year.

One of the main points stated about Madrigal is that he was the closest person drafted to being big league ready. If he's not up until 2020 or 2021 then they evaluated him poorly as well. 

If neither guy sees AA this year, then this team has some big issues.

[Perfect Vision]

6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

This sounds disturbingly similar to the comments Marcus Semien and the A's were making after they acquired him.

Semien hit .240/.293/.380 in his first taste of the big leagues with the Sox.  In his four seasons with the A's, his prime years, he's hit .250/.312/.407.  So maybe the A's aren't as smart as they think they are.  Just because these teams do things differently than the Sox doesn't make them right.

[GREEDY]

Not sure if this pertains to Joc or even to catcher framing:

The Dodgers had multiple high speed cameras on every practice pitching mound at Camelback.

The Sox had zero.  

 

[Stealth G.O.A.T.]

13 minutes ago, GREEDY said:

Right, and Ross from Friends is insinuating he thinks Chilli is guessing.  Which is kind of ironic to begin with.  

Why is it ironic? What was the insight Chilli provided? That Machado wanted to sign while on his visit to Chicago? What was Machado signing? They still haven't come to terms on an agreement and Manny's visit was a month ago. 

[oneofthemikes]

1 minute ago, GREEDY said:

Not sure if this pertains to Joc or even to catcher framing:

The Dodgers had multiple high speed cameras on every practice pitching mound at Camelback.

The Sox had zero.  

 

These kinds of statements make me sad. Baseball has evolved so much in the past several years and the Sox really seem to have fallen behind. It's a fixable issue, but a willingness to admit when we're wrong isn't really a strong suit. 

[Dick Allen]

Yolmer Sanchez and Tyler Saladino seemed to know what they were doing with the glove. Tim Anderson seems to have figured some things out. Tyler Flowers improved greatly. 

 

Sometimes getting better is on the players. As much as we need to find fault with everyone but the guy who sucks sucking, sometimes that line of thought is just wrong. 

Edited January 24, 2019 by Dick Allen

[daggins]

3 minutes ago, Perfect Vision said:

Semien hit .240/.293/.380 in his first taste of the big leagues with the Sox.  In his four seasons with the A's, his prime years, he's hit .250/.312/.407.  So maybe the A's aren't as smart as they think they are.  Just because these teams do things differently than the Sox doesn't make them right.

Semien was mostly talking about defense, I believe, which is what I was talking about when I said that the Sox do not care about defense.

[jenksycat]

1 hour ago, BrianAnderson said:

You heard it from Jenksycat first... Pollock won't get more than 3 years. and he's just going to cost a "few million more" than Joc Pederson would...

 

2/13 for Joc

4/55 for Pollock. Just $42mm more ... just a few million more.

You got me man you're the coolest, congrats. 

 

He definitely got an offer that blew away Mcutchen and Brantley and that 13m AAV is significantly more than Joc, something the Sox could never have afforded.

 

[GREEDY]

Just now, Stealth G.O.A.T. said:

Why is it ironic? What was the insight Chilli provided? That Machado wanted to sign while on his visit to Chicago? What was Machado signing? They still haven't come to terms on an agreement and Manny's visit was a month ago. 

It is ironic because raBBit has been accused of guessing in the past and he was accusing Chilli of guessing.  The irony has nothing to do with Machado.