Joc Pederson: 💤💤​​​​​​​💤​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

[Chicago White Sox]

11 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If the entire premise behind this deal is that we should do this because the Dodgers will give us a big discount, count me as confused as to why the Dodgers would do that. If the White Sox have to pay fair value, even if the prospect doesn't become something useful to us in the end, that prospect can be currency down the road. 

Imagine if the White Sox had traded Jeremy Reed to try to stay competitive in 2003 and the Yankees wound up trading for Freddie Garcia in 2004.

Who are the other teams interested in Joc?

Edited January 21, 2019 by Chicago White Sox

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Who are the other teams interested in Joc?

Per Jon Heyman, the Braves are on the list. Joc would make far more sense for them as they could use the upgrade over Adam Duvall and have the benefit of being able to say they can win 90 games next year as they won 90 games last year. They are a far better fit than us, so why the Dodgers would give us a big discount on him I don't know.

I'd also say that Cleveland should be on this, but who knows if they will do anything this offseason.

[Ross Gload Fan]

Just now, Balta1701 said:

Per Jon Heyman, the Braves are on the list. Joc would make far more sense for them as they could use the upgrade over Adam Duvall and have the benefit of being able to say they can win 90 games next year as they won 90 games last year. They are a far better fit than us, so why the Dodgers would give us a big discount on him I don't know.

I'd also say that Cleveland should be on this, but who knows if they will do anything this offseason.

Maybe the Dodgers are less inclined to trade him to an NL contender? Maybe that's why we make more sense.

[Chicago White Sox]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Per Jon Heyman, the Braves are on the list. Joc would make far more sense for them as they could use the upgrade over Adam Duvall and have the benefit of being able to say they can win 90 games next year as they won 90 games last year. They are a far better fit than us, so why the Dodgers would give us a big discount on him I don't know.

I'd also say that Cleveland should be on this, but who knows if they will do anything this offseason.

Because the Braves are a potential competitor in the playoffs.  The Sox are about as safe of landing spot as they come.  I’m not suggesting they should just give him to us, but I wouldn’t be surprised in the slightest if they took less from us than someone like the Braves.  Context does matter.

[Y2Jimmy0]

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Because the White Sox are simply not in a position to compete in the next 2 years and have OFs who could be arriving in 2020 I'm not going to give up anything that I think has a legitimate chance of being useful to us. That is going to make my offer pathetic but what can I do?

Yolmer is excessive, he'd fit well on a team that is competitive right now.

Carson Fulmer - I had high hopes for him even last year but alas. Cordell and/or Delmonico - same reason.

Other teams should easily beat this.

 

You don't think they compete over the next two years if they trade for Pederson and sign Machado? I would disagree. The AL is trash. 

[caulfield12]

Another reason to trade him to the Sox is that a competitor of the Dodgers, like the Braves, would then have to allocate more payroll due to the increasing demand for Pollock’s services, not to mention they’d lose that draft pick.

Considering the Braves are set up to be one of the top NL teams the next five years, it’s certainly a consideration to a team desperate for a World Series title.

Not a huge consideration, but if would be if the Braves aren’t offering significantly more for Joc.

Of course, Atlanta could always shock the world and sign Harper tomorrow.

Edited January 21, 2019 by caulfield12

[Chicago White Sox]

6 minutes ago, Ross Gload Fan said:

Maybe the Dodgers are less inclined to trade him to an NL contender? Maybe that's why we make more sense.

My thoughts exactly.

[Chicago White Sox]

2 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

You don't think they compete over the next two years if they trade for Pederson and sign Machado? I would disagree. The AL is trash. 

Balta actually thinks we need four starters in the top 15 of AL Cy Young voting to compete.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Good work here from Steve Paradzinski on the Joc Pederson pursuit: https://theloopsports.com/2019/01/21/white-sox-lets-talk-about-joc-baby/

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

You don't think they compete over the next two years if they trade for Pederson and sign Machado? I would disagree. The AL is trash. 

Not unless Renteria and Cooper are the best coaches of young talent in history. The gap between us and even a .500 record, with Machado in the fold, is still large. So far this year the White Sox have basically treaded water with their acquisitions compared to last year. Adding Eloy will be a jolt, but even Eloy + Machado + Joc still leaves this team well below .500 - the only way to that level is substantial improvement from guys already here. To talk about competing, you're talking about those kids who struggled so much last year winning 15 or 20 more games on their own. 

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Balta actually thinks we need four starters in the top 15 of AL Cy Young voting to compete.

The 2018 AL Central champs had 2 guys in the top 6 of the MVP voting and 2 guys in the top 6 of the Cy Young voting. 

[Ross Gload Fan]

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Not unless Renteria and Cooper are the best coaches of young talent in history. The gap between us and even a .500 record, with Machado in the fold, is still large. So far this year the White Sox have basically treaded water with their acquisitions compared to last year. Adding Eloy will be a jolt, but even Eloy + Machado + Joc still leaves this team well below .500 - the only way to that level is substantial improvement from guys already here. To talk about competing, you're talking about those kids who struggled so much last year winning 15 or 20 more games on their own. 

I dont think you realize how bad our division is. And the Indians have gotten worse. Those 3 could get us there. (There being .500)

Edited January 21, 2019 by Ross Gload Fan

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, Ross Gload Fan said:

I dont think you realize how bad our division is. And the Indians have gotten worse.

Wasn't the AL Central equally bad last year when the White Sox were a 62 win team? 

[Y2Jimmy0]

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Not unless Renteria and Cooper are the best coaches of young talent in history. The gap between us and even a .500 record, with Machado in the fold, is still large. So far this year the White Sox have basically treaded water with their acquisitions compared to last year. Adding Eloy will be a jolt, but even Eloy + Machado + Joc still leaves this team well below .500 - the only way to that level is substantial improvement from guys already here. To talk about competing, you're talking about those kids who struggled so much last year winning 15 or 20 more games on their own. 

Their rotation isn't very good. The Sox have the best bullpen in the division though and would have a significantly better offense with those additions. I wouldn't think they'd be a definite playoff contender but they'd play 35 games against the Tigers and Royals. The AL is very mediocre outside of the top 4 teams. 

[Ross Gload Fan]

Just now, Balta1701 said:

Wasn't the AL Central equally bad last year when the White Sox were a 62 win team? 

Yes, but if we have made said additions, and improvement of young talent, while the division leader has weakened, there's no reason why we cant improve by 20 games.

[Y2Jimmy0]

5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The 2018 AL Central champs had 2 guys in the top 6 of the MVP voting and 2 guys in the top 6 of the Cy Young voting. 

Absolutely they did. That same team now has bullpen problems though and maybe the worst OF in the AL. 

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Absolutely they did. That same team now has bullpen problems though and maybe the worst OF in the AL. 

You're right, they definitely need OF help. 

I wonder if they could find one to trade for, under control for a couple years and fairly cheap,  where people are for some reason arguing that the team will take a discount to send him into the other league. I wonder who might fit that description.

[Chicago White Sox]

12 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Not unless Renteria and Cooper are the best coaches of young talent in history. The gap between us and even a .500 record, with Machado in the fold, is still large. So far this year the White Sox have basically treaded water with their acquisitions compared to last year. Adding Eloy will be a jolt, but even Eloy + Machado + Joc still leaves this team well below .500 - the only way to that level is substantial improvement from guys already here. To talk about competing, you're talking about those kids who struggled so much last year winning 15 or 20 more games on their own. 

Former top 10 prospects in the group you are referring to: Yoan Moncada, Carlson Rodon, & Lucas Giolito.  Former top 50 prospects: Reynaldo Lopez & Tim Anderson.  Those guys combined for 6.5 fWAR last year.  They can be significantly better next year...it’s really not that crazy of a notion.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

8 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Balta actually thinks we need four starters in the top 15 of AL Cy Young voting to compete.

I know that's an exaggeration and it also depends on the definition of the word compete. So I humbly request when anyone wants to say compete or competitve please define it. Is that make the playoffs compete ? Slightly below .500 , .500, or slightly above  .500 compete ? Didn't we all used to think that around .500 was the worst place to be ?

I would have to agree with the no starting pitching assessment. I will charitably say we have 2   #3's ( Lopez, Rodon)  a  #4 in Nova and the rest are #5's. Debatable I know but I think I'm being more than fair.

[Chicago White Sox]

5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

You're right, they definitely need OF help. 

I wonder if they could find one to trade for, under control for a couple years and fairly cheap,  where people are for some reason arguing that the team will take a discount to send him into the other league. I wonder who might fit that description.

What could they offer them though?  Their system has taken a huge hit and they don’t exactly have a plethora of expendable bullpen arms to trade.

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

What could they offer them though?  Their system has taken a huge hit and they don’t exactly have a plethora of expendable bullpen arms to trade.

If people are talking about getting Pederson for something centered around Bush, it doesn't have to be much for them to offer a better deal than us. I will confess my current ignorance of their system though. 

[The Beast]

Can’t wait for rabbit’s statements to come to light. Getting impatient with all that we can’t know and won’t know. Spring training can’t come fast enough.

[mqr]

27 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The 2018 AL Central champs had 2 guys in the top 6 of the MVP voting and 2 guys in the top 6 of the Cy Young voting. 

But also a had a poop bullpen and a 7/9ths of a poop lineup. The brewers had 0 above average starters throw more than 80 innings and won a MUCH better division. 

Edited January 22, 2019 by mqr

[Chicago White Sox]

1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I know that's an exaggeration and it also depends on the definition of the word compete. So I humbly request when anyone wants to say compete or competitve please define it. Is that make the playoffs compete ? Slightly below .500 , .500, or slightly above  .500 compete ? Didn't we all used to think that around .500 was the worst place to be ?

I would have to agree with the no starting pitching assessment. I will charitably say we have 2   #3's ( Lopez, Rodon)  a  #4 in Nova and the rest are #5's. Debatable I know but I think I'm being more than fair.

I honestly don’t think Balta was exaggerating when he said that.  

Regardless, I think it’s too early to say what we have with our rotation.  I think Rodon & Lopez have higher ceilings than #3 starters.  I’m not high on Giolito right now, but at his best last year he flashed #3 starter ability.  Nova’s upside is limited, but at worst is a capable #5 type.  We definitely need to add another starter if we intend on competing next year.  And even then we’d two of those three young guys to take big leaps forward, but at least it’s in the realm of possibility.

[hi8is]

2 minutes ago, mqr said:

But also a had a poop bullpen and a 7/9ths of a poop lineup. The brewers had 0 above average pitchers throw more than 80 innings and won a MUCH better division. 

You deserve to be banned, twice.