Joc Pederson: 💤💤​​​​​​​💤​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

[raBBit]

1 minute ago, GREEDY said:

You guys realize that this is going to go down as "JoeyDoughnuts" broke the Machado news. 

He already broke it when he said that Machado didnt want to leave chicago without signing  weeks ago. 

[Soxbadger]

13 minutes ago, raBBit said:

Who is doing that?

 

People who are suggesting trading valuable pieces for Joc Pederson who only has 2 years of control.

 

12 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Man do I hate these comments. 

No one is saying to take a shortcut. 85 wins, btw, could win the division. People are saying it's time to start adding MLB pieces to a team that is going to have a lot of youthful pieces coming up over the next 12 months. 

Taking a shortcut is trading valuable prospects for a 2 year rental. This strategy is exactly what the Sox did post 2005. Ever year they would "retool" and try to just be good enough to win the division. The problem is that winning a division and winning a world series are much different propositions. Now anything can happen, and even a bad team can get hot for 15 games. But the odds arent in your favor.

Thus the whole point of the rebuild was to shoot higher than 80-85 wins, was to do better than using guys like Tatis to get Big James. It was to hoard young assets. It was to have a low payroll. It was to build up a team that was competitive on its own, and then use the excess pieces to create a team that is great and that has longevity.

2019 should be the year when young guys get a chance. If Pederson had 3-4 years of control, it starts to make more sense. But im not giving up Rutherford for Pederson for 2 years. 

Edited January 24, 2019 by Soxbadger

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

1 minute ago, raBBit said:

He already broke it when he said that Machado didnt want to leave chicago without signing  weeks ago. 

sooooo are you sayinggg.....

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

7 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Years away?

As I have noted, their 4 MAIN assets, were AA and AAA ready players. They were all less than two years from MLB ready. Eloy - ready last year. Cease - ready this year. Kopech - ready last year. Moncada - ready two years ago. 

The Sox could spend however much they want. The argument otherwise is absurd. MLB is swimming in cash, the White Sox as well. They have plenty of money to spend. They use to run payrolls in the top 5 of baseball - they are capable of doing it. Don't buy the small market nonsense. The Cubs have a bigger following outside the Chicago Metro area, but in this area the city is split (AT WORST) 55/45. The Sox aren't a small market team. 

This doesn't even account for the fact that Giolito and Lopez were also MLB ready (Although, IMO, if Gio is ready then this is bad).

Every single major asset they traded Q, Sale and Eaton for were within two years of being Big League ready, and 5 of them were arguably ready when they were acquired. 

To say this rebuild should take 5 years is horribly misguided

Edited January 24, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[raBBit]

Just now, Soxbadger said:

 

People who are suggesting trading valuable pieces for Joc Pederson who only has 2 years of control.

I would think acquiring Pederson would imply the Sox expect to get Machado. Your point is not wrong but the Sox have a strength in left-handed relieves. Moving Bummer or Fry makes sense. Moving Bush, which they're hesitant to do, is arguable and you'd have a point. At the same time, it is a market and they could  be selling high on a guy who dominated rookie bull in a SSS. 

[GREEDY]

1 minute ago, raBBit said:

He already broke it when he said that Machado didnt want to leave chicago without signing  weeks ago. 

Is this sarcasm saying he is taking a shot again or are you saying he was right insinuating he had a deal two weeks ago?

[DirtySox]

@ChiliIrishHammock24 So I'm not going to regret leaving my 70 degree SoCal weather to fly to single digit temp Chicago tomorrow for my first SoxFest you say?

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

In the next twelve months? Some of the following names better be making appearances or pushing their way into the conversation:

Cease

Robert

Madrigal

Dunning

Collins

Zavala

The expected arrivals for 18 of the top 30 was 2018 or 2019 - some got pushed back due to injury, or lack of progress - but if we're talking 2020 before the majority of these guys even make an appearance then that's a problem - given that it will be year 3 of Moncada already, Timmy will be nearing the end of his deal, Kopech will be without two years, and Eloy will be 3 years closer to his exit as well.

going to have a lot of youthful pieces coming up over the next 12 months. 

Um, so was that the goalposts that just went flying past me or what?  Of that list you probably will see Zavala and Cease if all stays well with him.  That is it realistically.

After reading this I now understand that the difference between us is reality.

[raBBit]

Just now, GREEDY said:

Is this sarcasm saying he is taking a shot again or are you saying he was right insinuating he had a deal two weeks ago?

I am saying he was wrong as no deal occurred. I like Sox chances on Machado though. They feel fine in the waiting game. Lozano is probably sweating though. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

9 minutes ago, fathom said:

But some of those 1-year deal guys are for veterans with very low ceilings that are likely to take away at bats from the younger guys that you might have wanted to give at bats to (i.e.Jay and Alonso instead of Palka and Delmonico).  Again, I'm beyond fine with these moves if it means Machado.  If not, it will be a giant mess.

Palka and Delmonico are no more part of the future than Jay and Alonso. 

Guys, Palka and Delmonico are very bad baseball players.

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

In the next twelve months? Some of the following names better be making appearances or pushing their way into the conversation:

Cease

Robert

Madrigal

Dunning

Collins

Zavala

The expected arrivals for 18 of the top 30 was 2018 or 2019 - some got pushed back due to injury, or lack of progress - but if we're talking 2020 before the majority of these guys even make an appearance then that's a problem - given that it will be year 3 of Moncada already, Timmy will be nearing the end of his deal, Kopech will be without two years, and Eloy will be 3 years closer to his exit as well.

Robert, Madrigal, and even Collins arriving in 2019 are all things we should be skeptical about. A 2019 arrival for the first 2 especially would be the classic Rick Hahn rush.

But, at least if you think Robert is arriving in 2019 you have to think that the idea of trading for Joc is a terrible one because it removes the benefit of the guy being able to play CF. 

[Sockin]

1 minute ago, GREEDY said:

Is this sarcasm saying he is taking a shot again or are you saying he was right insinuating he had a deal two weeks ago?

Joey is @ChiliIrishHammock24 who broke the Herrera signing and gave insight into the Machado visit here.

[raBBit]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

After reading this I now understand that the difference between us is reality.

-1 points to whoever just commended the intelligent baseball discussion. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I don't even know where to start with this.

Kopech was not READY last year.  Cease will not be READY this year.  Moncada still isn't READY today. That is 100% not true.  Making your major league debut is not READY.  Both Kopech and Cease are under innings limitations to start with.  Moncada has always

 The rest of that post is 100% wishful thinking and false memories.  At least deal with me in reality.  Otherwise this conversation is a waste.

How are they not ready. They are accruing MLB service time - Moncada and Kopech were in the Major Leagues. How is that not ready? My goodness. Not being stars does not mean they are not ready. If they aren't ready, what are they doing in the big leagues? 

[raBBit]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Palka and Delmonico are no more part of the future than Jay and Alonso. 

Guys, Palka and Delmonico are very bad baseball players.

You're probably right but Palka stands on the left side of the box and hits balls over fences. 

[fathom]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Palka and Delmonico are no more part of the future than Jay and Alonso. 

Guys, Palka and Delmonico are very bad baseball players.

I'm not saying they aren't, but I would rather see Palka get at bats than Alonso

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, raBBit said:

You're probably right but Palka stands on the left side of the box and hits balls over fences. 

We have signed contracts worth over $70 million and traded for Alonso for another $9 million to find guys who could do exactly that this decade. We have spent more money on that than any other position except 1b. And the best thing that happened from those signings was one guy retiring.

[Dick Allen]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Palka and Delmonico are no more part of the future than Jay and Alonso. 

Guys, Palka and Delmonico are very bad baseball players.

There are so many guys on the 40 that 99% will suck. Baneulos,Covey, Frare,Fulmer, Medieros, Ruiz, Stephens, Viera, Cordell, Delmonico, Engel.  That's 11 right there. I think if the Sox wanted to they could run them all through waivers right now, and at most lose 4 or 5 of them, and they probably wouldn't care.

[Soxbadger]

1 minute ago, raBBit said:

I would think acquiring Pederson would imply the Sox expect to get Machado. Your point is not wrong but the Sox have a strength in left-handed relieves. Moving Bummer or Fry makes sense. Moving Bush, which they're hesitant to do, is arguable and you'd have a point. At the same time, it is a market and they could  be selling high on a guy who dominated rookie bull in a SSS. 

If the Sox get Machado its an entirely different equation. But as of today that hasnt happened. 

Without Machado (or another huge acquisition), I just dont see the path where the Sox are serious competitors in 2 years, where Pederson is going to make a huge difference. 

My personal opinion is the Sox should hold onto all of their prospects (I was more talking spects than MLB relievers) and then use them to try and cash in on something bigger. While a guy like Rutherford/Bush may not get a lot on their own, those are the type of guys who can be added as *sweeteners*  to get a deal done for someone who can have a serious impact.

My biggest issue, is that I really am starting to feel like Pederson is an end, not a beginning. And if the Sox acquire him, that will be sold as a big get if they miss on Machado and Harper.

[Sockin]

 

[southsider2k5]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

How are they not ready. They are accruing MLB service time - Moncada and Kopech were in the Major Leagues. How is that not ready? My goodness. Not being stars does not mean they are not ready. If they aren't ready, what are they doing in the big leagues? 

Really?  You look at Yoan Moncada today and see a guy who is ready for playoff baseball?  You look at Giolito and Lopez right now and see pitchers who are ready to anchor a division winner?

Again, look back at Javy Baez.  Was he ready when he came up?  It took him years to learn at the big league level.

They are learning at the big league level.  It happens.  That is precisely why rebuilds take years and not months. 

[mqr]

2 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

If the Sox get Machado its an entirely different equation. But as of today that hasnt happened. 

Not going to lie, I've based all of my arguments on the assumption that if Pederson comes, Manny is coming too. I will concede that Pederson without Manny makes no sense.

Edited January 24, 2019 by mqr

[Dick Allen]

1 minute ago, Sockin said:

 

Maybe Ribbie and Rhubarb are making a surprise appearance. 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

I need more Chilli in my life... Pun intended

[kevo880]

1 minute ago, Sockin said:

 

I feel like no one is really getting excited about this. Chili was clearly told something that has him excited.