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3 minutes ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said:

Laz vs Rutherford, yeah I don't really know who I would rather keep. The thing with Rutherford is that his prospect stock has been declining for a couple of years now. He was better in 2018 than 2017, but we are still looking at a kid who will turn 22 at the beginning of the season and still hasn't played above A+ yet. Not counting existing major leaguers, he's behind Eloy, Robert, Adolfo, Basabe, Luis Gonzalez, maybe even Steele Walker soon. You are talking about our 6th or 7th best OF prospect. 

While Laz Rivera is lesser of a prospect right now, he's trending up and he's only behind.....Madrigal on our prospect lists for SS/2B. Yes we have Anderson and Moncada, but Laz could be a guy who replaces Yolmer in a couple of years if neccessary. Rutherford has a TON of competition.

I realize that being buried for us doesn't take away his value to other teams, but I think Rutherford would be a guy I would be ok losing. I don't know, it's not that much of a difference to me between him and Laz for our org.

 

By that logic, Laz is going to turn 25 this year and hasn't played above A+- Rutherford had a nice bounceback season at an age appropriate level.

He also has a 6-3 frame he can add to. Rivera is most likely org filler, Rutherford could become a ML regular.

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7 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Same.  I wouldn't trade Rutherford for Joc straight up. 

Well that I find absolutely ridiculous. Where do you possibly rank Rutherford among our top 7 OF prospects???

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7 minutes ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said:

Laz vs Rutherford, yeah I don't really know who I would rather keep. The thing with Rutherford is that his prospect stock has been declining for a couple of years now. He was better in 2018 than 2017, but we are still looking at a kid who will turn 22 at the beginning of the season and still hasn't played above A+ yet. Not counting existing major leaguers, he's behind Eloy, Robert, Adolfo, Basabe, Luis Gonzalez, maybe even Steele Walker soon. You are talking about our 6th or 7th best OF prospect. 

While Laz Rivera is lesser of a prospect right now, he's trending up and he's only behind.....Madrigal on our prospect lists for SS/2B. Yes we have Anderson and Moncada, but Laz could be a guy who replaces Yolmer in a couple of years if neccessary. Rutherford has a TON of competition.

I realize that being buried for us doesn't take away his value to other teams, but I think Rutherford would be a guy I would be ok losing. I don't know, it's not that much of a difference to me between him and Laz for our org.

I agree that Rutherford is a guy I would be OK losing. But not for 2 years of Joc Pederson.  I'd trade him a significant piece of deal to get a controllable SP.  But not 2 years of control of Joc Pederson when the Sox are still unlikely to be competitive. 

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6 minutes ago, GermanSoxFan said:

 

By that logic, Laz is going to turn 25 this year and hasn't played above A+- Rutherford had a nice bounceback season at an age appropriate level.

He also has a 6-3 frame he can add to. Rivera is most likely org filler, Rutherford could become a ML regular.

I addressed "that logic" when I referred to their prospects status. Rutherford is ranked more highly than Laz, and that's almost exclusively due to age and draft pedigree. Because numbers wise, Laz has been better.

 

EDIT: Also, Laz will be 24 through the entirety of 2019 season, not 25.

Edited by ChiliIrishHammock24

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Just now, ChiliIrishHammock24 said:

Well that I find absolutely ridiculous. Where do you possibly rank Rutherford among our top 7 OF prospects???

The ranking among our OF prospects is somewhat irrelevant.  He do have an abundance of good OF prospects, but that doesn't mean we should sell low on them.  As I just said in the post above, I'd be fine moving Rutherford in a deal, but not in a deal for a guy with 2 years of control in a window that is unlikely for hte team the be competitive.

And to answer your question, I would put him 4th or 5th.  Eloy, Robert, Adolfo, Rutherford/Basabe, Gonzalez.  I think Rutherford, Basabe and Gonzalez are on about equal footing in terms of future value IMO, though I am not saying they are comparable players. 

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2 hours ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said:

Well that I find absolutely ridiculous. Where do you possibly rank Rutherford among our top 7 OF prospects???

Just not interested in losing any good prospects for a 2 year player when one of those years is a throw-away year.  

Edited by GreenSox

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13 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Just not interested in losing any good prospects for a 2 year player when one of those years is a throw-away year.  

If we get Machado and Pederson, you don't think the Sox have a GREAT shot to compete in 2020, and maybe even an outside chance in 2019 if everything goes right? And if they aren't doing so hot to start 2020....you can just flip Joc at the deadline. To not trade for him straight up with prospect not even in our top 10 is bonkers to me. Pederson is a 3+ WAR player. They don't grow on trees.

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1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

The ranking among our OF prospects is somewhat irrelevant.  He do have an abundance of good OF prospects, but that doesn't mean we should sell low on them.  As I just said in the post above, I'd be fine moving Rutherford in a deal, but not in a deal for a guy with 2 years of control in a window that is unlikely for hte team the be competitive.

And to answer your question, I would put him 4th or 5th.  Eloy, Robert, Adolfo, Rutherford/Basabe, Gonzalez.  I think Rutherford, Basabe and Gonzalez are on about equal footing in terms of future value IMO, though I am not saying they are comparable players. 

I have to agree with you. When you start comparing Rutherford ,Gonzales. Basabe and Adolfo any one of them could end up better than the others. I left out Eloy and Robert because they are hand and shoulders above the others but even Robert is no sure thing due to injuries but the ceiling is huge and being a CF you have to rank him as more valuable.

Playing russian roulette with the other 4 means you are just as likely to get shot as you are to stay alive, I think he's a corner OF but every team has 2 corner OF's and the better they are the better your team. Rutherford has the frame to hit for power and according to baseball ref. he was actually 1.5 years younger than league average in A+. Just seems like every time I read something from a poster here it's that Rutherford isn't that good. I'm expecting a big year from him maybe not in HR's but he's going to spray the ball all over that bigger park and my guess is he hits just as many HR's as last year if not more. If he can adjust quickly I suspect he will be getting a lot of doubles and triples.

All 4 seem like really good hitters , some needed time to adjust to a level some did not. Some have more power at the moment but that can change when you are 22 . OBP seems good for all of them. Basabe  switch hitter, Adolfo right handed , Gonzalez and Rutherford left handed. Gonzalez and Basabe seem more likely to stay in CF also so that versatility is a big plus. All of them seem capable of top 100 status .

Future Sox ranks it Adolfo 7, Basabe 9, Gonzalez 10, Rutherford 11 out of our top 30. Baseball America ranks Adolfo 6 , Rutherford 8, Gonzalez 9 and Basabe not in our top 10. MLB Pipeline  Rutherford 7 , Basabe 9, Adolfo 11 Gonzalez 14. Rutherford retaining a bit of his sheen and luster from being a Yankee 1st round pick.  Not a lot of conclusive stuff about who is best. I'd hate to be the one who traded the wrong one.

There's some impressive talent  down on the farm. I prefer they let them play and see who becomes the real deal.

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It sounds like the Indians have all but closed the doors on any Kluber trade. According to Morosi and a number of other people - Kluber trade talks are dead. He's expected to report to spring training this week with the indians.

I like to think that this increases our chances for  a Pederson trade to happen. No top outfield prospects going back to Cleveland now if trade is off. So they might want to unload Joc for some pitching?

Edited by smellysox

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6 minutes ago, smellysox said:

It sounds like the Indians have all but closed the doors on any Kluber trade. According to Morosi and a number of other people - Kluber trade talk is dead. He's expected to report to spring training this week with the indians.

I like to think that this increases our chances for  a Pederson trade to happen. No top outfield prospects going back to Cleveland now if trade is off. So they might want to unload Joc for some pitching?

I think the Realmuto trade also makes Pederson a likely trade candidate since the Dodgers aren't getting him hence won't be moving Verdugo.  I don't think anything happens though with Joc until Harpchado is figured out.  At least anything considering us and Joc.

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8 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

Sounds like they are dead then.

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34 minutes ago, bmags said:

Sounds like they are dead then.

Yeah it doesn't really seem like the Dodgers need to deal him. Never really felt that way. They can go into the year with Verdugo in the minors and trade him during the season for help. For bullpen help, there are still guys they can sign and probably get them on minor league deals.

Edited by soxfan2014

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It was always kinda weird to me that suddenly the dodgers were worried about redundancy. Pederson is cheap and still complemented their team. Getting him for basically rehab projects was bizarre. But la has always liked some of our mid level/low prospects more than other teams.

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5 minutes ago, bmags said:

It was always kinda weird to me that suddenly the dodgers were worried about redundancy. Pederson is cheap and still complemented their team. Getting him for basically rehab projects was bizarre. But la has always liked some of our mid level/low prospects more than other teams.

equally weird that the story was being broke by a high school kid

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I bet Sox try to rekindle the talks if they do eventually land MM.  I'd still really prefer to see someone other than Engel in CF everyday, and I don't think Jay in a legitimate everyday option in CF.  

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11 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I bet Sox try to rekindle the talks if they do eventually land MM.  I'd still really prefer to see someone other than Engel in CF everyday, and I don't think Jay in a legitimate everyday option in CF.  

Agreed.

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Andrew Toles dealing with personal issues and out indefinitely. I wonder if this makes a Joc trade less likely?

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21 minutes ago, fathom said:

Andrew Toles dealing with personal issues and out indefinitely. I wonder if this makes a Joc trade less likely?

Andrew Toles is nothing more than a 4th/5th outfielder. Joc I believe is slated to start in LF for the Dodgers.

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The Dodgers have a lot of flexibility with their roster.  Verdugo and Bellinger could very well become the everyday corner outfielders, with Muncy at 1B and Hernandez at 2B.  Chris Taylor would move into a super utility role, and be the primary backup for just about everyone.  Pederson is expendable and I don't think the absence of Toles will affect that.

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10 minutes ago, Perfect Vision said:

The Dodgers have a lot of flexibility with their roster.  Verdugo and Bellinger could very well become the everyday corner outfielders, with Muncy at 1B and Hernandez at 2B.  Chris Taylor would move into a super utility role, and be the primary backup for just about everyone.  Pederson is expendable and I don't think the absence of Toles will affect that.

I'm not sure I would bet on a guy like Max Muncy repeating the year he had last year. Also, Hernandez is more of a bench player himself than a starter.

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