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Joc Pederson: 💤💤​​​​​​​💤​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

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7 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

If the Dodgers didn’t do the trade because it was leaked, wouldn’t that make the White Sox the leakers? So apparently RH should have a problem with his own house.

Now, this is a great question and one worth debating.  Hahn may not like the leaks, but who the hell the responsible party here?  If it’s own camp he has no one else to blame but himself.

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4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Really, the Dodgers think he might have a much bigger market come June and July and yeah that makes sense for a competitive team, to give up an asset to one of their competing teams in the middle of the season? This is nonsense. The Dodgers are not this dumb.

Lol...I’m sure the Dodgers would be willing to trade with the Indians in February but not in July.  Is that what you’re actually suggesting here?

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1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Now, this is a great question and one worth debating.  Hahn may not like the leaks, but who the hell the responsible party here?  If it’s own camp he has no one else to blame but himself.

I said the White Sox are unprofessional and leaked it despite the Dodgers insisting it needed to stay quiet to allow them to work on a Realmuto deal several times as a possible option, that makes a helluva lot more sense than the Dodgers deciding to pull the deal because Twitter made them realize it was bad, but only the latter one has been put back to me.

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Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

Lol...I’m sure the Dodgers would be willing to trade with the Indians in February but not in July.  Is that what you’re actually suggesting here?

And you're suggesting that the Indians called and said "We'll put a better offer on the table but only in July" and the Dodgers said "hmmm this makes sense ok".

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9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

No but if the salesman got a better offer for the car from another buyer, he doesn't decide not to sell the car.

That's true. And that's where using that analogy begins to fail. MLB teams' ultimate goal does not align with a car salesmans' ultimate goal. MLB teams don't have to make moves for the sake of making moves. Salesman do.

Read this hypothetical take and if you can honestly say with 100% certainty you can't see this as being a *possible* timeline of events, then we'll have to agree to disagree.

Let's say the Dodgers have zero intent on moving Pederson (this is a team after all that values having depth on the roster). Let's say Hahn approaches them because maybe a new hire (Matt Lisle) who helped attribute to a better 2018 season for Joc (massive improvement to K% compared to career norms) pushed for the Sox to try to buy low on him before another positive season. Maybe the Dodgers were intrigued by the offer, and eventually came to an agreement with Hahn on what they perceived as fair value. Then the supposed deal leaks before the deal can officially agreed on. Multiple teams now approach the Dodgers because they had no idea Pederson was available. Now the Dodgers realize there is a potential market for Pederson. What if the Indians approached them and tried to build a deal around Pederson/Kluber. What if the Marlins tried to land him as part of a Realmuto package. Does Fulmer/Bummer/+ really seem that good now? Those things obviously didn't happen, but now the Dodgers realize they might be able to get more value for a guy if they wait until the trade deadline. Hence, why Hahn was angry it didn't get to the finish line.

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Just now, Balta1701 said:

I said the White Sox are unprofessional and leaked it despite the Dodgers insisting it needed to stay quiet to allow them to work on a Realmuto deal several times as a possible option, that makes a helluva lot more sense than the Dodgers deciding to pull the deal because Twitter made them realize it was bad, but only the latter one has been put back to me.

Ok, now I’m convinced your an internet-based algorithm.  Twitter did not make them realize it was a bad trade.  The Twitter leak allowed other teams to see the offer the Sox had made and allowed them to express their own viewpoints on value.  The Dodgers then reassessed the situation and decided they needed more from the Sox to pull the trigger.  None of this is very far-fetched and I’m shocked you’re struggling with this so much.

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2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Ok, now I’m convinced your an internet-based algorithm.  Twitter did not make them realize it was a bad trade.  The Twitter leak allowed other teams to see the offer the Sox had made and allowed them to express their own viewpoints on value.  The Dodgers then reassessed the situation and decided they needed more from the Sox to pull the trigger.  None of this is very far-fetched and I’m shocked you’re struggling with this so much.

And I'm convinced you must be Rick Hahn to be so emphatically insistent that the only way this could possibly go down is one where Rick Hahn is totally doing everything right and the Dodgers must just be fools who had no idea of the value of their own player until twitter happened. 

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3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

And you're suggesting that the Indians called and said "We'll put a better offer on the table but only in July" and the Dodgers said "hmmm this makes sense ok".

No, I’m not suggesting any one thing in particular, just that teams reached out to the Dodgers afte the leak and expressed some viewpoint on value (whether current or in the future) that caused the Dodgers to reasses their decision to take the White Sox’s offer.

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1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

No, I’m not suggesting any one thing in particular, just that teams reached out to the Dodgers afte the leak and expressed some viewpoint on value (whether current or in the future) that caused the Dodgers to reasses their decision to take the White Sox’s offer.

The Dodgers are simply not this stupid.

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4 minutes ago, Tony said:

You’re missing the point, but that’s OK. 

What point am I missing exactly?  Please elaborate because otherwise this just comes off as a douchey response.

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Just now, Balta1701 said:

The Dodgers are simply not this stupid.

What is stupid about this?  Like I am so confused here.  That they changed their mind?  Teams change their minds all the time for all sorts of reasons.

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10 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

And I'm convinced you must be Rick Hahn to be so emphatically insistent that the only way this could possibly go down is one where Rick Hahn is totally doing everything right and the Dodgers must just be fools who had no idea of the value of their own player until twitter happened. 

You may find this hard to believe, but I hate Rick Hahn more than you do.  I just try to be objective in my criticism of him.

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Just now, Tony said:

I thought I was fairly clear about Rick lying or not lying wasn’t really the point here. I did it in multiple posts. You seem to be dying on the “HE’S NOT LYING!” Hill which is fine, but I don’t really care about that. 

Then what is the point?  I posted the Joc nugget simply because it confirmed what some insiders here suggested and felt that was worth sharing after all the heat they took.  I wasn’t using it to suggest Hahn is good or had a great offseason or didn’t bungle the Machado situation.

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With regard to Machado, there are two plausible explanations: 

1) Uncle Jerry put a cap on how much they could offer

2) Rick and Kenny didn't take the Padres seriously, and truly thought they had the best offer on the table until Machado took the Padres offer, which was actually better, and they're left holding their dick. 

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Rick Hahn is a shitty GM and is terrible at his job.  He really needs to shut up and stop making excuses for everything that he has a hand in messing up.  It's that simple at this point.  "Losers always whine about their best, winners go home and fuck the prom queen."  Go away Hahn.

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3 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

So you think Hahn is making it up then?

Probably not, but I don’t think he’s talking about Pederson. Makes more sense he is talking about a different player that actually got moved. 

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4 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Sorry, I don’t follow here.

Without Manny, there was no need for Joc to beef up the roster for a two year shot in the arm. 

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Now that he is available, Hahn needs to hire Robert Mueller to find out who in the White Sox front office is leaking trades. 

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Listened to the podcast. So sick of the excuses. For someone that says everything is so binary, he sure likes to make it sound like not getting something done wasn’t completely their fault.

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8 minutes ago, fathom said:

Listened to the podcast. So sick of the excuses. For someone that says everything is so binary, he sure likes to make it sound like not getting something done wasn’t completely their fault.

Are you referring to the Machado stuff or the Joc stuff?

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6 hours ago, sox71 said:

Are we happy that the trade for Joc did not happen?

I'm not happy, but I'm not upset that it fell through. We heard rumors about Laz Rivera being included we heard another rumor about Rutherford being included. This team isn't going anywhere in 2019, and Joc Pederson won't put us over the top for 2020 either. No big deal after you lose out on Machado/Harper and then Dunning gets TJS. The timeline is going the wrong direction.

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I don’t buy any of the BS regarding more interested teams because the rumor was spilled out on Twitter.  Joc is still a Dodger and has not been traded.  More than likely, Hahn fucked up the trade or dropped out of the trade once he whiffed on Machado.

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IIRC the rumor got floated like a day or two before dodgerfest (or whatever their equivalent of soxfest is) and Joc had a prominent PR role in it. While we are all uneducatedly speculating as to what might have happened - Seems plausible to me the dodgers said “wait a week to let anyone know,” then they saw the likes of WSD, Richard roeper and Peggy kuszinskis son for crying out loud tweet about this. They got pissed and backed out

Edited by daa84

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I'm glad they didn't trade for Peterson.

Rick Hahn is ramping up the excuses at an even higher level than usual....I hope this means that there is some pressure on him. 

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