CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said: Based on his UZR/150 last year, I’m not sure moving him to corner would actually hurt his value that much. And he had ~140 wRC+ / .900 OPS against lefties last year as a 26 year old. I don’t agree that his value is eroding, I think he’s simply evolving into a quality strong side platoon OF. Also, if we are actually thinking about going for it next year (which remains to be seen), we need some left-handed bats to combat the Indians all righty rotation. Adding Pederson to the middle of our lineup would have a huge impact in that sense. Don't you mean against righties since he is a LH hitter ? Yes he hit's righties well and would get the majority of the playing time. He could hit them even better or he could regress to 2017 form especially switching leagues. Dodgers are rightfully selling high on him and no longer need him and we shouldn't view him as more than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, soxfan49 said: How can you say trading Bryce Bush is going to end up like Tatis part II and then 4 minutes later say Bush will never be a great prospect and will merely sneak into the top 100 at best? Tatis might be the #2 prospect in baseball. They got a rapidly declining SP for him and paid him a lot of money. You're saying Bush could be the #95-#100 prospect in baseball. They would be getting a productive LH OF in return for him. There is literally no correlation. That isn't what I said. You're reading into things too much. He absolutely would have a chance to be a top 50 prospect or even top 25 if he sneaks into the T100 by the end of the season, which is what I said btw. As a 20 year old, that is really good. I never said he'd be back end at best, I said he'd be back end by the end of 2019. An uber prospect, in my book, is top ten league wide. Nobody knows that yet. I do think that Bush has a chance to explode in 2019, so I'd rather hold on to him. However, if they're signing Machado, his best use to the Sox would be as a trade chip anyway assuming Machado stays longer than 3 years. Edited January 20, 2019 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: That isn't what I said. You're reading into things too much. He absolutely would have a chance to be a top 50 prospect or even top 25 if he sneaks into the T100 by the end of the season, which is what I said btw. As a 20 year old, that is really good. I never said he'd be back end at best, I said he'd be back end by the end of 2019. No, it is not what you said. You said Bush will never be an uber prospect, and now you're saying he could be a T25 guy in the future. What you're implying is that now everytime the Sox trade an off the radar prospect for a veteran, you're going to assume it's going to end up like Tatis? Edited January 20, 2019 by soxfan49 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, soxfan49 said: So now everytime the Sox trade an off the radar prospect for a veteran, you're going to assume it's going to end up like Tatis? Not the case, Bush actually has a ton of upside, was an absolute steal and was a top 75 draft prospect from last year that nobody thought would sign. If teams knew he would have signed, Bush would have gone in the 1st 3 rounds. Bush is more of a known quantity than Tatis was at the time he got traded for Shields. That is why I'd complain if they traded him. Bush is absolutely not an off the radar prospect. I'd bet he's in the teens on the Sox org list on MLB pipeline when it comes out in 4-5 weeks or so. It would show they've learned nothing from the Tatis fiasco. Edited January 20, 2019 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 Just now, soxfan49 said: So now everytime the Sox trade an off the radar prospect for a veteran, you're going to assume it's going to end up like Tatis? Point is Bush shouldn't be traded, at least not this year. He was an excellent draft pick . Give him a few more years in the minors see what we have. He has elite bat speed and if everyone thought he was available he probably goes in the top 5 rounds instead of the 33rd where the Sox got him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 55 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: All I can say, is that trading Bryce Bush is likely to end up like Tatis part deux. It would prove they have learned nothing from the Tatis fiasco. Likely? If Bush was likely Tatis, he would have been a top 5 pick, AT WORST. Bush has some promise and all but you just said he was likely to end up as one of the top prospects in all of baseball. I know this is Soxtalk and that is what we do here, but can we pump the breaks on the hysterics? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Likely? If Bush was likely Tatis, he would have been a top 5 pick, AT WORST. Bush has some promise and all but you just said he was likely to end up as one of the top prospects in all of baseball. I know this is Soxtalk and that is what we do here, but can we pump the breaks on the hysterics? I'm not saying an uber prospect, just one that shouldn't have got away. I think Bush is going to end up in the 40-50 range by the end of 2020. He's a HS bat, so he could even be higher than that. I don't think he'll ever get to be Uber Tatis level, but you don't trade away guys with the type of potential Bush showed for 2 year rentals. When I said Tatis part deux I never meant that he'd be a top 3 prospect in the game, just one that will be highly ranked and there would be a ton of b****ing about down the line. Edited January 20, 2019 by Jack Parkman 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: I'm not saying an uber prospect, just one that shouldn't have got away. I think Bush is going to end up in the 40-50 range by the end of 2020. He's a HS bat, so he could even be higher than that. I don't think he'll ever get to be Uber Tatis level, but you don't trade away guys with the type of potential Bush showed for 2 year rentals. And we have time to wait to see what he becomes. Who knows maybe in 3 years he can headline a trade for a top player or replace Manny at 3rd if we get him but then opts out. Many here want Pederson but would be quite upset if Bush was part of the trade. I don't see a problem reading between the lines of what you wrote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 Bryce Bush was mentioned and nothing more. The Sox won't have to give up that kind of high upside talent to get Hill/Pederson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 41 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: That's a lot of IF's . If we get Manny. If we get Joc ,if we get a decent starting pitcher (from where I have no idea), If we have a FEW (not just one) breakout. I love the optimism I really truly do but Manny is the big enchilada and he must be attained before any of that is considered . 100% agree. Machado is the key to all this, but once he’s in place the biggest & most important “if” goes away. As for our young guys, I generally believe high-end talent wins out over time if not for injuries. I fully expect Moncada, Lopez, & Rodon (if healthy) to be better next year. And I wouldn’t be surprised if one or two of them blew up big-time. I think Anderson can be a 3 win player if his 2nd half defense is for real and has some moderate gains with the bat. I’m less optimistic about Giolito, but I feel he can be a solid #5 starter at a minimum, which is somehow an improvement. None of this includes Eloy, who is projected to be a 3.5 win player as a rookie by Steamer600. I’ll keep saying it, but look at the Braves and how a couple young guys propelled them to big things last year. Moncada & Jimenez can be our version of Acuna & Albies. By no means am I guaranteeing that will happen, but it’s definitely a possibility and why I’ve been pushing us to use our financial flexibility to fill holes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 17 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: I'm not saying an uber prospect, just one that shouldn't have got away. I think Bush is going to end up in the 40-50 range by the end of 2020. He's a HS bat, so he could even be higher than that. I don't think he'll ever get to be Uber Tatis level, but you don't trade away guys with the type of potential Bush showed for 2 year rentals. When I said Tatis part deux I never meant that he'd be a top 3 prospect in the game, just one that will be highly ranked and there would be a ton of b****ing about down the line. This is still an extreme exaggeration. This is a kid that is fighting to make the backend of the White Sox top 30 today. What are you seeing in him that will push him from where he is now into the range of guys like Cease who is currently #25,Luis Robert who is #44, and Madrigal who is #49? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 Sox won't have to give up much to get Pederson. I've seen Rich Hill could be included too. If Sox do that and eat the money, they shouldn't have to give up Bush. I'd be hesitant on trading Bush, but I'd still trade him for a player like Pederson. If Machado and Pederson happen, I'd run this lineup out there 2B Moncada CF Pederson 3B Machado 1B Abreu LF Eloy DH Alonso C Castillo RF Jay SS Anderson That's a playoff lineup. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 One of the byproducts of Tatis is going to be Sox fans constant paranoia and heightened sense of overvaluing prospects. We always over valued prospects before but it’s going to be worse now. Not that the Sox should be giving away all they have but cmon guys we can’t be afraid every time a prospect goes for a proven player. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 Jeeze lay-off Parkman. Everyone knew what everyone meant when they said he could be another tatis, trading someone before you have any idea what you have only to see them blow up. He doesn’t literally have to transform into Fernando tatis’ son to use a comparison. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 1 minute ago, shipps said: One of the byproducts of Tatis is going to be Sox fans constant paranoia and heightened sense of overvaluing prospects. We always over valued prospects before but it’s going to be worse now. Not that the Sox should be giving away all they have but cmon guys we can’t be afraid every time a prospect goes for a proven player. Yea for sure. And Tatis is pretty much the only time this FO ever really lost a trade of this kind. Usually the guys we send out turn out to be junk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 Jason might want to seriously looking into big pharma advertisers for Soxtalk. 10% off all meds for SoxTalk members if they click the advert from this site. Soxtalk username, password and age verification required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 1 minute ago, shipps said: One of the byproducts of Tatis is going to be Sox fans constant paranoia and heightened sense of overvaluing prospects. We always over valued prospects before but it’s going to be worse now. Not that the Sox should be giving away all they have but cmon guys we can’t be afraid every time a prospect goes for a proven player. Well I’ll tell you this. I think it showed a tendency for this front office to undervalue young assets that has continued throughout draft and trades. They hand wave and say they are high risk and miss a lot of opportunities that may be better than older prospects because of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Princess Dye said: Palka in the field takes every iota of value his offense gives, maybe even more. Palka's lost 10-15 lbs this off season and has been working out at GA Tech all winter on his D. Curious to see the progress if any he's made. Probably in the same neighborhood as Schwarber...which was still meh at best. Don't get me wrong tho...I love me some Daniel Palka! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 9 minutes ago, shipps said: One of the byproducts of Tatis is going to be Sox fans constant paranoia and heightened sense of overvaluing prospects. We always over valued prospects before but it’s going to be worse now. Not that the Sox should be giving away all they have but cmon guys we can’t be afraid every time a prospect goes for a proven player. agreed. I think we'd be looking at strictly pen arms along with Fulmer in a deal like this anyway. Sox aren't trading Bush...not for 2 years of control for Joc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, bmags said: Well I’ll tell you this. I think it showed a tendency for this front office to undervalue young assets that has continued throughout draft and trades. They hand wave and say they are high risk and miss a lot of opportunities that may be better than older prospects because of it. You can say that for pretty much all the aggressive front offices. In order to continue getting proven assets through trade you have to show that you are at least willing to roll the dice and trade someone who may be good one day. It looks like they are undervaluing every time they do it and with Tatis it was the most extreme case of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 8 minutes ago, bmags said: Jeeze lay-off Parkman. Everyone knew what everyone meant when they said he could be another tatis, trading someone before you have any idea what you have only to see them blow up. He doesn’t literally have to transform into Fernando tatis’ son to use a comparison. He just posted that he thinks Bush will end up a top 40-50 player. Again that Madrigal/Robert territory. Madrigal was the #4 pick in the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, Wanne said: Palka's lost 10-15 lbs this off season and has been working out at GA Tech all winter on his D. Curious to see the progress if any he's made. Probably in the same neighborhood as Schwarber...which was still meh at best. Don't get me wrong tho...I love me some Daniel Palka! Best shape of his life ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 Palka had -11 runs and -10 in right field....can we not do this again? Defense is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 16 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: This is still an extreme exaggeration. This is a kid that is fighting to make the backend of the White Sox top 30 today. What are you seeing in him that will push him from where he is now into the range of guys like Cease who is currently #25,Luis Robert who is #44, and Madrigal who is #49? FWIW (which isn’t much 😜) Bush is firmly in the top 30 and I’d probably put him around 20th overall, which is pretty damn good in our system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 Bush was a 33rd guy who had some special circumstances, and yeah he did well. But he is a total no one right now. We will be trading guys. This is reality. That's part of the plan, and our win-now window accelerates if we sign a major FA to a deal with player-outs. If Bush is unreal-good, I trust our talent evaluators to not let him go. It's hard to say after Tatis, but their job is to be better than they were on that day. Whether Bush or someone else, trades will be coming, and we will have to part with some of our stash. Either for 2019 or 2020. Depending on what the team looks like and what the division looks like in a month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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