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NFL Thread 2019-2020

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4 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

Me and bmags had an argument about this and that's clearly false. Look at GB, Indy or the Rams. They hired GM's with a coach in place and let them eventually hire their guy. No one is turning down the GM position of the Chicago Bears because they have to deal with a coach for 12 months. They'll take the 3x-4x raise and buy a mansion in Vernon Hills with the thought of being the guy who ended this insane drought, and hey, if Nagy turns it all around, that's one less major decision said-GM has to make.

Nagy is a clown, and needs to go. The dude is a slightly less eccentric Trestman. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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Maybe, but he's drawing up plays that work. The OL needs to be better and the QB needs to start regularly hitting the open players.

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The 2nd and goal hand off to Cohen up the middle is enough reason to fire Nagy IMO. He still thinks hes the smartest guy in the room despite all the struggles. 

BE YOU

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10 minutes ago, LittleHurt05 said:

The 2nd and goal hand off to Cohen up the middle is enough reason to fire Nagy IMO. He still thinks hes the smartest guy in the room despite all the struggles. 

BE YOU

When Cohen's in the game it's typically a pass. He was trying to throw them off. They scored a play later. Relax

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That "juggernaut" New England defense getting exposed right now.

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41 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

When Cohen's in the game it's typically a pass. He was trying to throw them off. They scored a play later. Relax

So I've met my first Nagy apologist. Wasnt aware they existed.

The only offensive formation that has worked in 6 quarters was the so called I formation with Holtz and it worked on that drive after a half of futility.

So you hand the ball to the smallest player in the whole league up the middle at the goalline with no lead blocker.

If that's the hill you want to die on, good for you. 

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11 minutes ago, LittleHurt05 said:

So I've met my first Nagy apologist. Wasnt aware they existed.

The only offensive formation that has worked in 6 quarters was the so called I formation with Holtz and it worked on that drive after a half of futility.

So you hand the ball to the smallest player in the whole league up the middle at the goalline with no lead blocker.

If that's the hill you want to die on, good for you. 

Lol. When they had Cohen do that my wife literally looked at me and said...how stupid is your teams coach. 

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12 hours ago, LittleHurt05 said:

So I've met my first Nagy apologist. Wasnt aware they existed.

The only offensive formation that has worked in 6 quarters was the so called I formation with Holtz and it worked on that drive after a half of futility.

So you hand the ball to the smallest player in the whole league up the middle at the goalline with no lead blocker.

If that's the hill you want to die on, good for you. 

It's not an apology. Last week Nagy schemed guys open all over the damn field. The same Chargers D hammered the Packers O yesterday. You can only do so much in today's football if the QB sucks. If the worst thing you can say about Nagy is that he ran it once with Cohen near the goal line, I'd say he's doing fine. The QB is bad, is scared, is unconfident and is holding the entire team down.

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17 hours ago, Tony said:

And all the reports say Pace went rogue on the pick, didn’t listen to his scouts, was all-in on Mitch by himself. 

If that's true, Pace should not only get fired, he should be taken out back and  get beaten with sticks.

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1 hour ago, MexSoxFan#1 said:

If that's true, Pace should not only get fired, he should be taken out back and  get beaten with sticks.

Tony - What reports are you referring to?  Or are you more referencing to the "top secret" nature of how they ended up picking Trubisky?  

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1 hour ago, Tony said:

It's been discussed a lot on Chicago sports radio. Pace went to the 2016 Sun Bowl and just fell in love with Mitch. He came back and said "Thats my guy" and the scouting department wasn't convinced. 

Not saying it's true, but it's been talked about a lot. 

Which is disappointing in it's own right, considering his Sun Bowl performance (against Solomon Thomas, btw) was pretty bad

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The Bears have had bad quarterbacks in their day, but I have never seen one like Trubisky. He looks shell-shocked out there. He just doesn't appear to have any confidence. You can talk about mechanics all you want, but he doesn't find a way to believe in himself, you won't even have a so-so player.

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15 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

The Bears have had bad quarterbacks in their day, but I have never seen one like Trubisky. He looks shell-shocked out there. He just doesn't appear to have any confidence. You can talk about mechanics all you want, but he doesn't find a way to believe in himself, you won't even have a so-so player.

Granted, his OL is inexperienced/bad; but yes, he should have been tutored better by the coaching staff.

He's still making the same poor progressions and decisions from the last 2 seasons. What makes it worse is that defenses are figuring him out and scheming to his weaknesses.

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1 hour ago, NWINFan said:

The Bears have had bad quarterbacks in their day, but I have never seen one like Trubisky. He looks shell-shocked out there. He just doesn't appear to have any confidence. You can talk about mechanics all you want, but he doesn't find a way to believe in himself, you won't even have a so-so player.

Yes - He does look bad and he has played bad. I've never seen a QB take such a big step back in one-year (where injury wasn't involved).  I hate to defend him cause I know my posting comes off that way, I just think there are bigger questions than just Mitch.  The things they are doing on offense are just horrific and the coaching staff has been a part of breaking Mitch. The good news is...Mitch has basically this season to show that he isn't a bust...if he doesn't, there is enough film the Bears can move on faster.  Never thought I'd be posting this after the season he had. I expected ups and downs again this year, because I don't believe QB development is purely linear...but I never in a million years expected this.  The guy is broken and pretty much all of it is in-between the ears.  That is what annoys me so much...a so called QB whisperer broke a QB (and yes...Mitch is fully responsible for this too).  

Why they didn't run an offense to play to the Bears and Mitch's strengths just annoys the heck out of me. Than again, it could just entirely be Mitch too.  It sucks and is what it is though...awful season and a mini restart for a franchise that doesn't have picks.  These are the exact reasons why I am never a fan of mortgaging a franchises future and always believe you should do what Parcells does which is build up draft equity (so you always have actual flexibility without ever mortgaging the future heavily).  

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I want Pace gone more than anyone else. I can live with another season of Nagy if it means Pace gets whacked. (don't get me wrong, Nagy should join him on the first plane out of town) 

I'm the leader on the Ditch Mitch wagon, but you have to ride the rest of the season with him. Playing Daniel accomplishes nothing. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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On 11/4/2019 at 8:47 AM, soxfan49 said:

It's not an apology. Last week Nagy schemed guys open all over the damn field. The same Chargers D hammered the Packers O yesterday. You can only do so much in today's football if the QB sucks. If the worst thing you can say about Nagy is that he ran it once with Cohen near the goal line, I'd say he's doing fine. The QB is bad, is scared, is unconfident and is holding the entire team down.

Except that one play is a microcosm of everything that Nagy has been doing wrong as well. Mitch cant execute his offense, but Nagy is so slow and unwilling to change and try to put Mitch in a better position to succeed. He finally switched back to the power running game in the 2nd half and got Mitch running out of the pocket and the offense started moving. Then he calls the Cohen play that even made Gages wife laugh. It might confuse the defense when you have a good offense, but the Bears dont. Nagy is still convinced that his offensive plan is so good, that it has to work and wont adjust. Or he just doesnt have the mindset to adjust and only knows the little Reid taught him.

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5 hours ago, Tony said:

I also believe this goes the other way too. I saw too much good out of Nagy last year, I think Mitch has sort of broke his brain a little bit as well this year. 

I can buy that. The hard thing I keep going back to, is the structure of the offense, how we are running it, just strategically don't lend itself to the type of team and the type of QB we had (or thought we had). None of it made sense to me. I also go back to last year when we started out of the gate with this complex offense and than simplified it and saw Mitch take off (not saying he was great, but in terms of 2nd year QB's, he was pretty solid).  For him to spiral so quickly out of control is crazy and I wish there was an ability to hit a reset button. 

If I reset this thing, I would have ran a much more conservative offense that protected the QB and put him in a position to more slowly grow and develop vs. straight up throwing him to the wolves. That is my big thing. What is done is done and maybe in the long run it was the best case scenario because it more quickly showed that Mitch can't do this...at the same time, it could be one of those things that broke a young QB and put them past the point of no return (I truly believe there is a lot of fragility and mental aspects to what allows young QB's to develop into good to great QB's vs. not so great QB's...even more so in this world of instant analysis and twittersphere OC's and QB Doctors).  

I also don't think Mitch's ability to throw accurately (throughout college and shown early in his NFL career...albeit issues certainly cropped up in his 1st year with Nagy) and to make plays with his feet (again in college and shown at the NFL level).  How a confident QB broke down has a lot of blame to go a lot of ways.  Just like I wonder what happens if  Pineiro makes that kick and Mitch is talking about a good game and mentally its just a win that gets things headed in the right direction.  I mean...look at Cousins...not saying he was a great QB, but 4 weeks into the season he was viewed as the worst QB in the league and than all of a sudden bam...he's back to looking like a borderline top 10 QB.  Things can change really fast in the NFL.  Unfortunately for Mitch, he's psychologically broken and no reset button will happen for him this year and at that point, he'll have shown too many major issues for any team to rely on him (in full) next year.  Mitch will still be on the roster and who knows...maybe he'll show some absurd resiliency and come back an entirely new QB in a year (crazier things have happened) but he's going to have to win a gig over a legitimate veteran.  

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Great coaches use the talent they have to build a system around them. That (imo) is my biggest problem with Nagy. Instead of creating an offense around what the Bears have, he is trying to force them to do what he wants. 

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2 hours ago, Soxbadger said:

Great coaches use the talent they have to build a system around them. That (imo) is my biggest problem with Nagy. Instead of creating an offense around what the Bears have, he is trying to force them to do what he wants. 

Which is what, exactly? What do the Bears have besides Montgomery and Robinson? Cohen looks slow. Miller and Gabriel are ok. The OL sucks. The QB blows. The TE's are beyond bad

 

3 hours ago, LittleHurt05 said:

Except that one play is a microcosm of everything that Nagy has been doing wrong as well. Mitch cant execute his offense, but Nagy is so slow and unwilling to change and try to put Mitch in a better position to succeed. He finally switched back to the power running game in the 2nd half and got Mitch running out of the pocket and the offense started moving. Then he calls the Cohen play that even made Gages wife laugh. It might confuse the defense when you have a good offense, but the Bears dont. Nagy is still convinced that his offensive plan is so good, that it has to work and wont adjust. Or he just doesnt have the mindset to adjust and only knows the little Reid taught him.

What position would you like that to be though? He ran the ball to the tune of 5 ypc against LAC and Trubisky had 2 inexcusable turnovers, 1 of which was a fumble that he fumbled for NO reason *trying* to move out of the pocket. How is any of that Nagy's fault? 

Edited by soxfan49

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28 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

Which is what, exactly? What do the Bears have besides Montgomery and Robinson? Cohen looks slow. Miller and Gabriel are ok. The OL sucks. The QB blows. The TE's are beyond bad

 

What position would you like that to be though? He ran the ball to the tune of 5 ypc against LAC and Trubisky had 2 inexcusable turnovers, 1 of which was a fumble that he fumbled for NO reason *trying* to move out of the pocket. How is any of that Nagy's fault? 

I can't wait for Gabriel's smurf ass to be gone. 

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You can't run any NFL offense with a trash tier QB.

 

Good thing Mitch is a sure fire HOF

 

 

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9 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

You can't run any NFL offense with a trash tier QB.

 

Good thing Mitch is a sure fire HOF

 

 

That's gold.

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2 hours ago, soxfan49 said:

Which is what, exactly? What do the Bears have besides Montgomery and Robinson? Cohen looks slow. Miller and Gabriel are ok. The OL sucks. The QB blows. The TE's are beyond bad

The first question is the problem with Nagy. His usage of Montgomery has been criminally bad. 

Look at the Patriots and how they use Michel/Burkhead/White. Use Cohen in the White role, get him in space on the outside and still have Montgomery in the game.

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12 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

I can't wait for Gabriel's smurf ass to be gone. 

I actually don't mind him. He catches everything. Problem is, his catch radius isn't overly large. I think analytics showed he was the 4th sure handed WR in football last year.

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11 hours ago, Soxbadger said:

The first question is the problem with Nagy. His usage of Montgomery has been criminally bad. 

Look at the Patriots and how they use Michel/Burkhead/White. Use Cohen in the White role, get him in space on the outside and still have Montgomery in the game.

Cohen leads the Bears in drops this year. Maybe you can chalk that up to terrible QB play, but you can't be James White if you can't catch.

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